> Putting the characters through pain is never a problem for me.
>That's where all the *interesting* stuff happens. And growth only comes
>through pain and struggle. So it's for their own good, really.
>
> jms
To quote from S C Sykes' novel "Red Genesis":
"Our need to create,to move and rearrange, to *make better*, is due to
our need to reach toward that wholeness we all lack. It's the very
pain of our imperfections that causes us to reach inside and find
whatever gifts we may have. Those with the greatest pain, the greatest
need, speak most eloquently for those who have no voice."
Jeannette
_____________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa35@dial.pipex.com
*****
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 1:57:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279131
Everyone always tells you it won't happen, you're wasting
your time, it's pointless...because that's how they want to think,
because someone achieving something makes someone who may not have
done so feel self- conscoius, because they KNOW you and as it says
in the New Testament "A prophet is without honor only in his own
land and among his own people," and because overall the system is
designed to keep you IN. A writer by nature removes him- or herself
from the system of 9-5 office type work. Over time you make your
own hours, your own schedule, you select who you work for... you're
outside the normal space/time continuum, and between you and that
goal is one hell of a lot of surface tension.
Every writer has been told, at some point, "You'll never make
it, why waste your time?" Ninety percent of the time, they're right.
Ten percent of the time they're not. But you won't know which camp
you fall in until you try.
jms
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:14 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279382
I started writing at 14; started selling at 17.
One warning re: 300+ page books at this point...if nothing
happens, and it may or may not, it can be a big stumbling block to
get over. Don't let the smaller stories get away from
you either. It's good to do a variety of things.
jms
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 10:39:08 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279853
The differences between screenwriting and a novel...would take
a book to communicate. Suffice for now to say just that the strengths
of a novel are all internal (internal monologue, POV, narrative
descriptions), and the strength of a screenplay is all external
(dialogue and visuals).
Which is why the best novels often make the worst movies.
jms
*******
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Derek Paterson, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 2:13:01 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279164
Re: things you don't expect to happen...that's kind of one
aspect I was after here. By way of comparison....
There's one great thing about The Shining, despite some other
flaws in the film: they set up Scatman Cruthers (sp?) as the one guy
who understands what's going on...he gets the Shining, he's a potentially
heroic character, and when all hell breaks loose, he's the one to
get into the snow plow, cross terrible weather, we're all sure he's going
to get there and fight the menace...he overcomes weather and nonsense
to get there...he blows through the front door, ready for action....
and gets an axe in the middle of his chest and dies.
I *loved* that, and always kinda wanted to something of that nature,
where you set someone up to be that kind of character, the future,
whatever, then you yank it back and let the audience say, Oh, hell,
NOW what?
jms
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Simon Grierson, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:10 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279380
Boy, a whole lotta questions, and not *one* I can answer at this
time without spoiling stuff for down the road.
Well, actually, there *is* one I can answer.
No, the B5 facilities were never flooded.
And thanks for the reaction....
jms
******
Subj: << Divided Loyalties >> Section: Babylon 5
To: Brian Deane, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:11 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279381
I'd say the next 3 are equal or more on a wow scale,
in some ways.
One other thought on Talia...one of the motifes we've played
with from the start was always showing Talia in mirrors...in Race,
in Z'ha'dum and others...always showing the reflection, her opposite,
just to set stuff up on an emotional/symbological level.
jms
******
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Colin Radford, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:23:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279408
Remember, Kosh was the one who sent those images into Sheridan's
brain, not anybody else; he was communicating useful information that
may come up down the road, but in rather symbological form.
jms
******
Subj: <<DL questions>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Ruth Ballam, Wednesday, July 26, 1995 2:35:22 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#280585
In the B5 universe, as a general rule of thumb, people don't just
come back after something like this. "Talia" has been destroyed
permanently; that's what it said in the episode, and that's the way
it'll stay.
jms
*****
Writing women has never been a problem for me. I like women, both
romantically (when I was still in the marketplace) and intellectually, as
friends. For as long as I can remember, the majority of my friends have
been women. I have a goodly number of men friends, but what can I say, I
like the way many women think. Specifically, I like women who are usually
smarter than me, who are funny, independent, self-assured and know their
own mind. So it's not much of a stretch, therefore, that when I sit down
to write female characters, *that's* what tends to come out most of the
time.
I've had a *lot* of relationships in my time; the total number of
intimate relationships (yeah, I'm talking about *that*) I once figured
worked out to about 50. On one level, I'm not terribly proud of that
figure, it reflects a period when I was trying to find...I dunno...
SOMEdamnthing...but on the other hand, it's given me a LOT of material from
which to draw.
jms
******
Well JMS this time you have really gone and done it, sitting here after
watching The Long Twilight Struggle I am *Speechless*, this episode to my
mind superceeds any other I have seen by a million miles in terms of action
content. Its powerful images brought forth many *strong* emotions including,
the odd tear.
IMHO it is your finest work to date, in some strange way I feel priviliged
to witness your work, as it puts SF TV where it always had the potential
to go, but has never had anyone able to do so....until now.
Didn't put in any spoilers, but if anybody wishes to ask me question direct
I would be happy to answer them.
--
Max Bone max@maxmax.demon.co.uk Co Durham, England.
*****
Max Bone <max@maxmax.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Well JMS this time you have really gone and done it, sitting here after
>watching The Long Twilight Struggle I am *Speechless*, this episode to my
>mind superceeds any other I have seen by a million miles in terms of action
>content. Its powerful images brought forth many *strong* emotions including,
>the odd tear.
>IMHO it is your finest work to date, in some strange way I feel priviliged
>to witness your work, as it puts SF TV where it always had the potential
>to go, but has never had anyone able to do so....until now.
I second those sentiments Max. It is beyond my capacity to express how
grateful I am for what we have been given here. God, sentimental old
fool, I'm sitting here crying now! Later.....
Jeannette
_______________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa25@dial.pipex.com
******
Thank you. I'm quite frankly thrilled beyond words at the preliminary
reactions from the UK to this episode; we worked *really* hard on it, and
I can't tell you what the reactions mean to us.
jms
*****
Forgive the language, but HOLY SHIT! Thank you for the most memorable
emotional moment on TV for me for years. I refer to the scene in the
council chambers with Londo laying down the terms of surrender. When
Sheridan and Delenn stood up for G'kar I was on my feet my heart pounding.
I just wanted to punch Londo so much I can't tell you! The whole scene
was fantastic... thank you! The CGI was also excellent, but for me,
G'kar and Londo stole the show. Awesome... how can it get any better!?
Adam T
jms replies:
"how can it get any better?"
Has to, though. We took a blood oath on this show that each season
must be better than the one preceding. In many ways, we're still the new
kids on the block, and we can't afford to ever once let our guard down and
settle for anything less than constant striving. And, frankly, though it's
endless struggle, it's kinda fun on another level; we discover and invent
new ways to do things, and new approaches to story and production, on a
regular basis (tomorrow we're seeing some new CGI tricks from Ron via some
beta-test software that should let us do some truly nifty stuff...).
jms
******
Subj: <Long Twilight Struggle> Section: Babylon 5
To: John Lester, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 11:34:09 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286700
"Joe, you do not disappoint."
I'm trying *awful* hard not to. Doing this show right is terribly
important to all of us involved in it. I really want it to be the kind
of show I've always wanted to watch as a fan. And I'm very, very pleased
that the writing is generally satisfactory. Sometimes, when
behind the keyboard, one has grave doubts if it's good enough....
jms
******
Subj: <Long Twilight Struggle> Section: Babylon 5
To: Steve Trease, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 1:14:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286149
<I've just finished watching The Long Twilight Struggle. Wow!
What can I say? By far the best episode yet. You have really
increased the pace of the series How are you going to
sustain it for another three years?
The acting was brilliant. Especially, Andreas Katsulas and
Peter Jurasik.
The scene over the Narn homeworld where you pan toward Londo
through the ship's window was incredible.
Oh, well, that's enough sycophancy for now...>
Thanks. It's definitely one of my favorite episodes.
The intensity is terrific.
jms
Subj: <<TLTS: CGI>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Spencer Collyer Tuesday, August 01, 1995 3:56:17 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286284
<Joe,
I'd just like to add my appreciation to you and your crew for
a superb episode in _The Long, Twilight Struggle_. This one
certainly lived up to its billing, and I just find it difficult
to believe you can top it (although this is one thing on which
I _know_ I'm going to be proved wrong - and happily so <g>)
I know Andreas is going to get much well-deserved praise for his
performance this week, but I'd like also to extend my appreciation
to your CGI crew - I don't think I have _ever_ seen a space battle
portrayed so well that I actually felt like it was real, that a
camera had somehow managed to record the events portrayed, as the
one between the Narn and Shadows.>
Thanks. Yeah, that scene is one of my favorites; a lot of work
went into it, and I think it shows.
jms
Subj: <<DL foreshadowing?>> Section: Babylon 5
To: John McAuley, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 3:56:20 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286285
<Urrrrr????
So Talia was Control?
Abel was reporting to B13?
Control was listing and informed B13 that Talia could be a problem?
B13 told Abel to eliminate Talia?
The question that springs to mind here is....
Did Control do a big Tom-and-Jerry swallow at this point?
You know: its really loud and your adams apple goes up and down.
PS
I've just seen TLTS.
Is that the first time the camera has moved in a composite live
action / CGI shot?>
Oh, heavens, no...we often move the camera in composite shots;
all of the push-ins to the Zen garden are that way.
Hard stuff we do all the time; it's the impossible stuff that's
fun.
jms
Subj: <<Long Stug:Twiglght>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Simon Grierson, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 11:23:18 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286690
<JMS,
I've just finnished watching (a video of) The Long Struggle Through
the Twiglight.
I was convinved Last weeks episode was top notch. But this weeks
episode! WOW!
I felt SO sorry for G'kar. I felt TOTTALLY outraged at the Centari,
although I do hold a certain sympathy for Londo Molari. He is obviously
regretting his action, but is too far along the road of disaster to turn
his back, or do anything to alter his actions. That sad look as he
looked out of the battlecruiser's window.
G'kar must feel so alone, his mother world almost completely descimated,
his family probably dead, and his government disbanded and taken over by
the dictatorship of the Centauri. To think, at the beginning of B5s run,
I was under the impression that G'kar was the 'baddie'. Oh, how things are
so different. I suppose I'm guilty of 'whell, he looks nasty, so he MUST be
the baddie!' <G>
Then we have the developments 'in' the planet. I KNEW that we'd see the
technology used someday. An allience! Yay! Big guns and super technology! Yay!
<G> (ther's my childish Big is Best mentality polking through!). Who will be
the other allies though? I presume the Vorlons will become more and more
involved, judging by what Dellen and Kosh have been saying. And then we have
the 'rangers', and Minbar. Maybe even refugee, resistence Narn
(I know you named that after the indian unleaven bread! <G>).
Now we have more exciting stuff to look forward to:
1. Kosh doing a strip tease. (last episode).
2. According to SFX:- B5 becomming an indipendent state.
3. Err, new uniforms to go with 2?
I REALLY can't wait 'till next tuesday! Just exactly when will timetravel be
invented?
In conclusion, I am only MORE fanatical about B5. I CANNOT WAIT untill
Season3 starts. It's going to be VERY exciting!
All we need now is bigger guns and lots of Spiders being spallterred! (I noticed
the Narn damaged a Shadow ship. This indicates they aren't invulnerable. Heh,
the little BUGgers can be swatted afterall!).
Thankyou, and thankyou 1000 times more. Keep it up. I shall personally go nuts
if you dont!
<G>>
Thanks. It's difficult to keep topping each season, and each episode,
but we're dedicated to continuing to try.
jms
*****
This week the North American market sees a repeat of "In the Shadow of
Z'ha'dum," which features a surprising display of spine by Vir Cotto in
the opening teaser. Vir's behavior in that episode lept to my mind
recently when I came across two passages in Tolkien's *The Fellowship of
the Ring*, the first volume of his *Lord of the Rings* trilogy:
'But where shall I find courage?' asked Frodo. 'That
is what I shall chiefly need.'
'Courage is found in unlikely places,' said Gildor.
* * *
There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is
true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit,
waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow.
Perhaps the awakening of courage in Frodo, Samwise, Meriadoc, and
Peregrin will have a *B5* counterpart in Vir's growth. Time will tell.
Of course, there is a small cottage industry on this group devoted to
noting apparent links between *Babylon 5* and *The Lord of the Rings*.
Without falling into the trap of assuming a one-to-one correspondence
between the works (remember, *B5* is not *LotR* "with the serial numbers
filed off"), there are resonances that demonstrate JMS's acknowledged
admiration for the work. There have been repeated notices of the
following affinities:
Gandalf's "Expect me when you see me" (cf. G'Kar in "Chrysalis")
The Company of the Ring consisting of Nine Walkers (cf. Valen's
assembling the first Nine)
Gildor's "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are
subtle and quick to anger" (cf. Elric in "The Geometry of
Shadows")
The presence of wide-roaming Rangers in both Middle Earth and the
B5 galaxy
While browsing in my favorite used-book store last month, I came upon a
hardcover boxed set of *The Lord of the Rings* in pristine condition.
Taking it as a sign of one way to get through The Long Wait, I bought
the set on the spot and began to treat myself to a re-reading of
Tolkien's epic. (What a joy! After all these years, it continues to
thrill, all the way to those final paragraphs at the ends of Appendices
A and B, which, for all their simplicity, still rip me up when I read
them.) In addition to the two quotations cited above that helped me get
a better fix on Vir's character, here are a few other resonances I noted
along the way:
*LotR* opens with Bilbo's "eleventy-first" birthday; however,
hobbits count in base ten, unlike the Minbari, who count in
base eleven
Gandalf, early on in the story, says of Gollum, "My heart tells me
that he has some part to play yet;" later, on the Road to
Rivendell, Glorfindel declares, "my heart warns me that the
pursuit is now swift behind us;" and much later Gandalf says,
"Yet my heart guessed that Frodo and Gollum would meet before
the end" (cf. Delenn's declaration that her heart tells her
she must remain on Babylon 5 rather than become Leader in
"Babylon Squared")
One epithet of the traitorous Saruman is the White Hand, and one
epithet of Sauron is the Black Hand (cf. the abundant "hand"
imagery in *B5*)
Gandalf, on his death and rebirth after defeating the Ballrog, says,
"I have passed through fire and deep water" (cf. Delenn quoting
Valen in "The Parliament of Dreams" and warning Lennier of the
danger of associating with her in "All Alone in the Night")
I can't help but wonder how much JMS was struck by Gandalf's poem about
Strider/Aragorn in the letter that Butterbur delivered to Frodo:
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
As we contemplate the mortality of characters in a series conceived by
JMS, we might bear this exchange between Frodo and Sam in mind:
'And that's the way of a real tale. Take any one that you're fond
of. You may know, or guess, what kind of a tale it is, happy-
ending or sad-ending, but the people in it don't know. And you
don't want them to.'
'No, sir, of course not. Beren now, he never though he was
going to get that Silmaril from the Iron Crown in Thangorodrim,
and yet he did, and that was a worse place and a blacker danger
than ours. But that's a long tale, of course, and goes on past
the happiness and into grief and beyond it--and the Silmaril went
on and came to earendil. And why, sir, I never thought of that
before! We've got--you've got some of the light of it in that
star-glass that the lady gave you! Why, to think of it, we're
in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales
never end?'
'No, they never end as tales,' said Frodo. 'But the people
in them come, and go when their part's ended. Our part will end
later--or sooner.'
And as Frodo, preparing to depart for the Grey Havens, explains to Sam,
'I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for
me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some
one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.'
***************************************************************************
***** sorso@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu ***** "Every silver lining has a cloud." *****
***************************************************************************
******* "That's the fiendishness of it. They're ALL arc episodes!" *******
***************************************************************************
*****
Of course JMS can do things wrong! And if we don't tell him then he
could throw any old garbage our way(not that he would) and we'd have
to swallow it.
What can he do wrong?
Well, following the initial WOW! reactions to tLTS these are the
things that the guys on umtsb5 disliked about it:
1/ The actor who played Draal was crap! His attempts to be
light-hearted and funny didn't work. It was neither in keeping with
the older Draal from VitW nor was it acted well. I've seen better
acting on Neighbours!
2/ The great scene with G'Kar praying was spoilt at the end when he
snuffed out the candle. Who had snuffed out all the others!?
3/ The whole B story detracted from the general sense of increasing
gloom and doom. Maybe JMS wanted to remind us that the light still has
a chance but I don't think it was necessary. The B story knocked marks
off the score for a lot of the B5ers on umtsb5.
4/ The final scene with the Rangers was far too rushed. Everything was
explained too briefly and accepted by Sheridan too easily. This
deserved a much better treatment.
5/ After initially liking Sheridan's closing speech I agreed that BB
does not do speeches of import with any great conviction. This has
been done before by JMS too - closing an episode with a Sheridan
speech. The episode should have ended with one of the darker moments.
Perhaps Londo hearing about the Centauri annexing other worlds.
Saying all that this was still one *great* episode.
What I did like:
1/ The acting of PJ and AK.
2/ The look on Sheridan's face when Delenn says, "Abso-fraggin'-lutely
dammit!"
3/ The CGI! The CGI! The CGI!
4/ The pan in to Londo on board the Centauri vessel and then the
change to the view from inside the ship with Londo's reflection in the
glass and the view outside.
5/ The mass destruction weapons firing.
6/ The Shadow ships spitting out the cluster bomb that split into
little Shadow craft.
7/ The Shadow craft piggybacking to take out the damaged one.
8/ GKar's shame and despair in the council chamber and his final
refusal to knuckle under to Londo's overbearing arrogance.
9/ After Sheridan shook G'Kar's hand, G'Kar looked at it then closed
it in a fist with a look that said, "I've got him!" At last G'Kar has
got Sheridan's promise of help.
10/ Londo's rapid changes of heart and attitude. This is JMS's Macbeth
character. He has chosen his dark and bloody path and it is lonely.
11/ The sheer complexity of the characters of Londo and G'Kar.
12/ Garibaldi's attitude towards Londo when he came back on board B5.
13/ The feelings I had when the show was over and I started to talk
about it here on the net. Gladdened and yet saddened at the same time.
Jeannette
_______________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa25@dial.pipex.com
*****
If there ever was any doubt in my mind that B5 was the best SF show on
TV (ever --- and I include my favourite STTNG in this!) all that was
cast aside last night as I watched ---- no, I think "participated in"
is a better phrase. More later -- the Long Twilight Struggle.
I can't say too much, cos I wouldn't want to ruin it for our US friends,
but I am AWESTRUCK, to say the least! As Stephen Browett wrote yesterday,
it makes you want to go into work and tell everyone who doesn't watch
the show what fools they are, what they're missing out on.
When the episode had finished, I found it hard to move from my bed (I
watch TV in my bedroom) for quite a time. As G'Kar once said (I think)
"We are poised on the brink". Well, I feel that we are all poised on
the brink of some incredible revelations which will herald a fantastic
third season, and I honestly don't know how I'm going to get through
the next week, waiting for the penultimate episode. I feel like I should
be dressed in ceremonial robes, or something.
A strange feeling descended over me as I watched the show. It was as if
the outside world faded away and was forgotten, a far off thing, and only
the drama playing out on the screen in front of me was real. It's rare
for a writer to achieve this sort of almost out-of-body-experience, and
I feel privileged to have been a part of this.
JMS, you are a writer in a million, and I envy you enormously. But I
admire, respect and love you for giving us such a phenomenon as Babylon 5,
and such an incredible episode as The Long Twilight Struggle.
How can you top it???
I look forward to finding out!! :)
In years to come, this will be seen as a focal point of 20th (and 21st?)
century TV!
Slainte!
Lestat.
*****
In article <3vovuv$3lh@gate2.internet-eireann.ie>
deryck@internet-eireann.ie "Lestat" writes:
[Comments on what a great and moving episode TLTS was]
Agreed. It was, in parts, almost too painful to keep watching. Around
3/4 of the way through I found myself thinking of the line from LOTR :
'You and I, Sam, are still stuck in the worst places of the story, and it
is all too likely that some will say at this point: "Shut the book now,
dad; we don't want to read any more." '
Very well done, Mr Straczynski.
******
You know, there comes a time when words really do fail you. TLTS isn't poetry -
it's better than that.
It's quite strange. Up until a few months ago, I'd *never* sat on the edge of my
seat during a TV show. Then came 'In the Shadows of Za'Ha'Dum' - I practically
fell off the sofa. Within the past fortnight, we've been treated to two of the
most gob-smacking episodes of B5 to date. 'Divided Loyalties' kept me enthralled
to the very end (the 'revelation' scene hits you quite fast). And then there's
'The Long Twilight Struggle'.
Well, it's just beautiful. Wonderful perfomances from Peter and (especially)
Andreas; G'Kar's speech brought a lump to my throat. And 'that shot' of Londo
says it all. Gorgeous CGI.
The line has definitely been drawn... and a few people are likely to be shoved
over it. All this and we've still got the season finale to come. I'm almost too
scared to look.
*****
This is one of the more delicate areas in viewer/producer interaction
here on the nets. On one side, if you say, "Yeah, we fought the studios,
the networks, nobody tells us how to do our show," and viewers respond with
enthusiasm, then another viewer has a suggestion, and you don't take it,
suddenly it has the potential to come off like a snub. Yes, on one level,
shows don't exist without fans. Shows also don't exist without networks
and studios to finance and produce them. There are two masters at work
here.
My take on this is very simple: nothing good has been done by
committee since the pyramids and Stonehenge. The bigger the committee,
the more watered-down or diffuse the final result. B5 viewers, as cute a
bunch as they might be, basicallyk constitute the largest committee on
record.
If somebody finds a glitch in the show, points out an error, asks a
good leading question, I (or frankly any reasonable producer) would be a
fool to ignore it. But you've got to know your own mind, and what it is
you want to do with your show, and be absolutely, totally committed to
following your inclinations and your instincts, or very shortly you'll end
up wandering in the wilderness beyond hope of recall.
jms
******
"If what's coming is truly nifty, then what do you call what you've
shot so far?"
The stuff we did yesterday.
Never look back.
jms
******
Without spoiling anything...yes, in this regard, I've always noted
that there are some echoes of WW II in the overall storyline, and some
applies here. Also, again, the purpose of a large measure of the show is
to elicit discussion of such issues as this...where are the mora,
(moral) responsibilities in such a situation? What are the ethics of
mass warfare? Where does expediency begin and compassion end? *Should*
compassion have to end for the greater good?
If we can start some bar fights, I'll have done my job.
Fact is, I don't have one single damned good answer. But I've got a
whole LOTTA questions....
jms
******
Let me just start off by disagreeing with your thesis, that the
length restrictions and format of TV writing tend to mitigate against good
writing. By that same token, sonnets (which use a very strict formula or
format) can't be good, or haiku, we should toss out iambic pentameter
altogether, and short stories, often considerably shorter than a half-hour
TV script, must also be unable to contain quality writing.
The form doesn't matter. It's what you bring to the table.
Similarly, the issue of rushed writing...many of the classic SF tales
of the 50s and 60s were written as fast as humanly possible because back
then writers were paid a penny a word, and you had to really crank the
stuff out there to make any kind of living. It was quite common for writers
of many of the SF magazines of the time to go into the publisher's office,
see the cover for an issue a few months down the road, and on the spot come
up with a title, a story premise, go home, write it, and bring it in the
very next day.
We're talking here margins. Margins aren't important. It's what you
choose to fill the margins, the care you exercise, the passion you bring to
the page, that makes the difference.
Yeah, a lot of TV writing is pretty marginal. Sturgeon's Law: 90% of
everything is crap. How many novels are turned out each year that sink of
their own weight in zero time? How few novels are really and truly
substantial? How many short stories? Out of all the SF novels and short
stories and short-shorts and novellas and novellettes published each year,
how many will survive on the shelf 5, 10, or 15 years from now?
Mark Twain said, "If you would have your fiction live forever, you
must neither overtly preach nor overtly teach; but you must *covertly*
preach and *covertly* teach." That, to me, is one primary ingredient; it
must, at its root, be *about* something more than car chases and bomb
blasts and shootouts. On some level, however cellular, it must instruct
and ennoble and elevate and enrich, make us question or consider.
Then there is the basic level of writing style, but that is a very
personal flavor. Hill Street had an elegance of simplicity, the writing
was often raw and piercing on a sheer gut level. I loved it. When I sit
down to write, I tend to drift toward a somewhat more literary-sounding or
theatrical style, probably because of my own influences.
It comes down, really, to whether or not you have the inclination to
sit down, whichever style you use, and stare at the screen for half an
hour until you find just the right word, the mot just, that serves better
than any other possibly could. Some writers will do that, some won't.
David Kelly does it on ER and Picket Fences and other shows. So do the
folks on The Simpsons. And many other shows. A lot of folks dump on TV,
ignoring similar failinlgs in literary SF or other genres, but like any
exercise in accepted cliche, the reasoning is flawed and often (though
not always) unjustified.
As for my personal list of writers whose work I admire...Kelly, as
noted, definitely. Mainly, though, I grew up on the genre TV writers of
the 50s/60s, like Rod Serling, Charles Beaumond, Richard Matheson, Robert
Bloch (that should be BeaumonT, not Beaumond), Ernest Kinoy, Harlan
Ellison, Joe Stefano, and though he was fading from view by then, Arch
Oboler, and the kinetoscopes of Paddy Chayefsky, Reginald Rose and others.
Later, I added Norman Corwin to the list, as a chief point of inspiration,
stylistically. (There are a number of writers who call or consider
themselves "Norman's Kids" in that we've learned much about writing, and
the integrity of writing, from Norman Corwin...including Ray Bradbury,
Charles Kuralt, Walter Cronkite, Stan Freberg, and many others.)
jms
*****
I've been browsing the GEnie archives on the Web and came across a
piece of information you gave out in the very early days before the
pilot episode went into production. I hope you don't mind me quoting
it here.
You said:
Wed Jan 01, 1992
"I've been trying to come up with a very off-beat plot turn to
pull in seasons 3 or 4 (assuming we ever GET that far, again, I'm
working all this out in advance and hoping for the best), and this
morning I came up with something SO neat, SO unusual, I practically
slipped in the shower. It's something that has never, EVER been done
in an SF series involving a major character. And boy, will this have
major ramifications! Too bad I have to wait so long to pull it off."
Can I ask if this is still on line?
Jeannette
jms replies:
That turn is coming.
jms
*****
A lot of people (myself included) are lamenting about what has been poor
coverage so far of "Babylon-5" in the media. Call it what you want: a
media that can't understand anything new, a bias for 'Star Trek',
whatever. I don't understand it myself. After all, B-5 is THE most
original and innovative show to be on television in a very long time, and
JMS should be very proud of what he and his talented staff has
accomplished.
But still, why is 'B-5' being given the snub by the media in this
country? I understand this show is very well received in the United
Kingdom, and there they are not even comparing this to Trek. B-5 falls
into that rare class of shows that actually draws people to watch who
don't ordinarily watch television (I have NEVER followed a show as much
as 'Babylon-5'!) Fans of this drama are something of a small elite.
Fortunately, I don't believe this will forever be the case. Remember,
when "The Lord Of The Rings" first came out, it was fully TEN YEARS
before it achieved the level of fame it has come to acquire. At first
the only fans of TLOTR were a small group of people who held this
masterpiece in very high regard even though it had likewise been snubbed
as being merely 'fantasy'. Today, you can hardly find a book store that
doesn't have at least one paperback "Fellowship Of The Ring" in it.
The point of it is: "The Lord Of The Rings" took time to become a
classic. Likewise, in another ten years, "Babylon-5" will be seen as a
true classic as well. And when that happens, we the long-time fans will
be able to smile at our friends who will have only then become able to
discover the magic of this remarkable show.
"Babylon-5" has all the potential to supplant "Star Trek" as the
predominant science-fiction television series of our culture. Just give
it time...
*****
Every show is on deadline, to one extent or another. As for the
rest....
It's hard to say. I know that my style has changed somewhat since
B5 began, and the approach I take *to* the writing has changed a bit, but
it's a very hard thing to put into words. It's like learning a new
little trick during sex...you're not quite sure where it came from, it's
still the same concept, but something about it works a little better for
you.
In one way, because it's my own show, I'm no longer having to yoke
myself to somebody else's conception. Whenever you're working for a
writer/producer above you, a certain measure of your time is spent in
second-guessing, however much you may also be trying to expand that
character at the same time. "
"Okay, I'm going to go this far, but I know if I go *too* far, the
guy's gonna lean on me, say the character wouldn't do that, and I'll have
to go back and restructure."
So that problem doesn't exist for me now. In some ways, it's given
me greater latitude and confidence, but at the same time it's caused me to
be *much* more intensely critical in examining my own work. I know that
creatively, I'm pretty much out on my own here, and if I don't take great
care to be sure that the work is up to par, there's nobody to backstop it
above me. "With great power comes great responsibility." Peter Parker.
Probably the main thing that's happened is that I've grown slowly
comfortable enough with things to begin taking real chances; doing scenes
without any dialogue whatsoever (the Emperor's fall in "Coming," certain
long segments of "Twilight"), and some fairly intense monologues; it's let
me be free enough to do some radical stuff visually, to stretch to the
limits of what I think I can do.
What happens, if you're a writer who cares about your work, is that
you write along at one level for a certain amount of time, you hit a
plateau, this is as good as you are...but you keep poking at the edges,
and after a while you get frustrated, because your reach is exceeding your
grasp, and you know this should be *better* than it is, but you don't quite
know why, or where, you can't conceptualize it...then suddenly you break
through the ceiling, to another level, and your writing changes from that
point on...until the next time.
I'm very aware of having gone through several of those since starting
the B5 series.
jms
*****
The script never technically leaves my hands. Once the final draft
is written, it's given to every department, which breaks it down in terms
of set, extra, day-player, EFX, music, sound and other requirements. We
have visual effects, art department and other meetings to go over what's
in the script and make sure we all understand what's required. Any new
designs for prosthetics, costumes, EFX, ships, or other episode-specific
elements are drafted, and shown to me for approval.
The script department breaks down the script in terms of shooting
schedule, timing of scenes, and arranges a production board indicating
which scenes will be shot on which days (Based on which sets are being
used; you don't shoot in sequence...you do all the C&C scenes done on day
1, then move into the Zocalo for all those scenes, and so on.)
The director and I have a tone meeting to go over the script page by
page. At this time, the director sometimes suggests changes in locales
for production purposes, though this often happens earlier in the process.
I make sure we both understand what each scene is about, context and
subtext. Then there's a production meeting of all departments, where we
all go through one last time and break down each scene of the script by
what's required.
The director then takes the script to the stage, and shoots what's
written. Dailies arrive each day thereafter, and go to post production,
where an editor does a preliminary assembly of the episode. If the
episode appears to be coming in long, we have the option of trimming a
scene here or there in shooting...or expanding if it's coming in short.
After 7 days of shooting, the raw film is complete, and the editor
gives the director his assembly. The director then comes in and takes
about 3-4 days making his or her cut. The director's cut then goes to
me, and John Copeland and I go in to make the producer's cut, often
re-editing every single frame, though sometimes less, depending on many
different factors. This is done on computers, the Avid.
This final edit is then used to assemble the actual film (we take the
Avid computer disk and turn it over to a supercomputer which assembles the
film overnight). Using this online copy, I now sit down with the composer,
and sound people, and watch it again, going through it and noting where
sound effects and music are required, and what kind I have in mind. "In
at 03:13:18 (three minutes, 13 seconds, 18 frames), out at 04:14:22. I'd
like something soft, strings mainly, underscoring that doesn't get in the
way...with a tone change at 04:05:13, into the action, and since we've got
a lot of combat going on there, we need you to clear out the low-end for
the battle stuff."
Composer and sound EFX people then do their thing, and a couple weeks
later, we do the audio mix. (During this time, Ron and company have
delivered the last of their CGI.) At the audio mix, all of the final
elements are inserted/layered in, including any last-minute looping or
dubbing. This done, the episode is delivered to PTEN about 5 days later.
Total time to complete an episode (after the last day of filming per
se): 52 days.
jms
*****
"So why do you rush your work out the door?" I don't. The script
takes the amount of time needed to get it right. Sometimes I take 7-10
days to write a script. Sometimes I do it in just a couple of days; and
often, the 2-3 days jobs are actually better because it's done in white
heat, with the image clearest in my mind.
In television, you can't take 6-8 weeks or even 2 weeks to turn in a
script; it's got to be done on a schedule; remember, you're using up one
script every 7 days, and you have to have scripts in hand 3 in advance
minimum for proper prep work.
"I find input from my writing group to be very helpful." I don't.
I've been writing professionally for 23 years now (started at 17), full
time for the last 17. I know what I want to say, and how I want to say
it. Does a sculpter go to a sculpting group and say, "Y'know, I think I
see a horse in this bit of clay, but I'm not sure, what do the rest of
you think?" An artist follows the dream or the vision that is in his or
her head. There's this notion that writing is somehow different; it ain't.
Nothing decent has been done by committee since Stonehenge and the
pyramids.
jms
*****
The group critiquing process may be, and likely is, useful when one
is an art major or learning to write or draw.
Then you have to leave that nest and fly on your own. The whole
PURPOSE of workshops and critiquing should be to help you find your own
voice (for a writer) or your own eye and style (if an artist). It should
help you make the work more muscular, and less artificial...peeling away
the layers until just the individual stands there, saying *exactly* what
he wants to say. The group isn't there to make you write like the group,
or please the group; it's there as a means of finding your own voice.
Once you've found it, you have to walk away. Otherwise the whole
endeavor has been for nothing.
Back in college, I took two writing workshops led by Richard Kim, a
transplanted Korean novelist, very well regarded. I learned a *hell* of a
lot. I signed up for a third semester. Now, mind, I liked the class,
we liked each other, it was good. FIrst day of class, he looked out,s aw
me, and said, "Go. You've learned all you can learn. Don't take any more
workshops, from me or anybody else here. You have the tools, now find your
voice. If you stay here, you'll risk losing it." At the time, I felt
as though it were a rejection, but over time I began to understand what he
was talking about.
jms
******
There has always been a certain element of Jungian archetypes in the show, both in the shadows and elsewhere. (Comes from having a degree in clinical psych, I suppose.) There's a *lot* of thematic/symbolic stuff going on in the show, actually....
jms
*****
How do you get a shot of Morden's head on a pike past the censors?
Easy.
You frame the shot so the head is draped...in shadows.
If I were to be planning such a thing, of course....
jms
*****
Re: things you don't expect to happen...that's kind of one aspect I was after here. By way of comparison....
There's one great thing about The Shining, despite some other flaws in the film: they set up Scatman Cruthers (sp?) as the one guy who understands what's going on...he gets the Shining, he's a potentially heroic character, and when all hell breaks loose, he's the one to get into the snow plow, cross terrible weather, we're all sure he's going to get there and fight the menace...he overcomes weather and nonsense to get there...he blows through the front door, ready for action....and gets an axe in the middle of his chest and dies.
I *loved* that, and always kinda wanted to something of that nature, where you set someone up to be that kind of character, the future, whatever, then you yank it back and let the audience say, Oh, hell, NOW what?
jms
*****
Remember, Kosh was the one who sent those images into Sheridan's brain, not anybody else; he was communicating useful information that may come up down the road, but in rather symbological form.
jms
******
In the B5 universe, as a general rule of thumb, people don't just come back after something like this. "Talia" has been destroyed permanently; that's what it said in the episode, and that's the way it'll stay.
jms
*****
One thing you have to remember is that while Talia is in the opening credits, to Psi Corps she's just one more of many programmed individuals in various places. The character in "Spider" was a highly valued infiltration unit, with very expensive "parts." Of the two, Talia would've been far more expendable. And I don't recall that Control actually issued any death order; it was the Psi Corps/B13 in any event.
jms
******
There is a growing diversification in the names and personnel to whom letters are being sent via the B5 mail drop (which is not the main studio address). Consequently, it is important to be absolutely sure to include the words C/O BABYLON 5 on any mail you send cast or crew at this address: 14431 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 260, Sherman Oaks, CA 91423. Otherwise it may end up being returned.
jms
******
"Joe, you do not disappoint."
I'm trying *awful* hard not to. Doing this show right is terribly important to all of us involved in it. I really want it to be the kind of show I've always wanted to watch as a fan. And I'm very, very pleased that the writing is generally satisfactory. Sometimes, when behind the keyboard, one has grave doubts if it's good enough....
jms
*****
"By the way, your dedication and commitment to your audience is the coolest thing I have ever seen come from the makers of a series, sci-fi or otherwise. You have no idea how much we appreciate it!"
Thanks. I guess, really, it's just having been a fan, and still being a fan in many ways, I just figure fans should be treated the way I would've liked to have been treated by folks in TeeVee. It's really as much my pleasure as anyone else's.
jms
*****
Yeah, Chris tends to get the lion's share of the credit for being online, though I've been here since 1984/85, but that's okay; it's the principle that matters.
I'm glad it's helped to demystify TV, because that's been one of my goals from the very start. You can't hope to influence or control something until you understand it.
jms
*****
8/6/95 Cis
Let me address the small points first, then go into the major thesis.
What keeps B5 from becoming a "cult" series if it runs only its five years? I dunno...lots of shows run only 5 years or less. The majority of them, in fact. I'd also point out that in the moderately-hard SF area -- space stuff, star travel and the like -- no show has EVER gone five years except Star Trek. Even Lost in Space went only 3 years (September 1965 to September 1968). Prior to the new incarnations of ST, the original series ALSO didn't make it past 3 years.
So if you really *want* to look at the only non-Star Trek spacefaring SF series to go (hopefully) five years in, oh, the entire HISTORY of American television and minimize that by calling it a "cult" series, well, that's certainly your right. I don't agree with it, but one wouldn't expect me to.
Twin Peaks, which only went about 2, max 3 seasons, is a short enough run to be justifiably called a "cult" show. Five seasons is a credible series in *anyone's* book. Right now, at just shy of year two, we're still a cult series. By year five we would not be; we'd be in the same ranks as any successful TV series, and success is defined as 90-100 episodes in the can, enough to syndicate thereafter. So right from the git-go, the term being used, "cult series," doesn't apply, I think. It's no more a cult series than any mainstream series that goes 5 seasons. (Hill Street Blues just *barely* made it to six years.)
Blake's 7 is a UK series, and to American audiences, that usually becomes "cult" by definition. And, again, B7 ran only 4 years, from January 1978 - December 1981. Dr. Who, though gifted with a 20+ year run, is also not much known in the US, and thus comes under a "cult" show heading by that default. (Because part of the definition of cult show is not a numerical issue, as you seem to advance, but a philosophical issue, the extent to which the society at large knows about the show, or elements of that show.)
But to continue using your terminology for a moment...Space 1999, which you cite, ran only from 1975-1977, three years again, which once more does not allow for any real momentum to be built up in making the general populace aware of it. Quantum Leap made 5 years, but since we're talking space-SF at the moment, and it's really more of an anthology series with recurring characters, that goes into a separate category for now.
If this show goes the full five years -- and it will -- it will become the only non-Star Trek space series to do so in the history of American TV. That is a *huge* accomplishment. Will it become widely known and accepted by the American consciousness, mainstreamed like ST, so that Jay Leno can comment on Klingons and everybody in the audience knows what he's talking about? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really matter to me one way or another. The show will be there. A painting is no less a painting for the number of people who pass in front of it. It is what it is.
I could probably help matters a bit by going more for merchandising, put in some scantily-clad women, doing a lot of stunts...but I've said from the start, I'm not here to try and make a franchise, I'm here to tell a story. Some folks will like it, some won't. Them's the breaks.
So the thesis of your panel, in some measure, seems to be, If B5 does not become as well known as ST, is it ultimately successful or important in American culture? To me, this is inherently flawed reasoning. ST is only the measure of ST, and nothing else. I'd even argue that except for the original series, there really isn't any one thing called Star Trek. There was the 3 season show that Gene did in the late 60s; there was the first movie Gene did in the late 1970s; the other movies that were done by other people, like Nick Meyer and Harve Bennet; the TNG series that was created by Gene and David Gerrold; the DS9 that was created by Berman/Pillar; and the ST:V created by Piller, Berman and Taylor.
They are all, in many ways, very different creations, that share only one thing: the brand name. If you renamed B5, STAR TREK: BABYLON 5, the ratings would go up instantly, and it would become more of a household name than it is. It would be no different a show, but it would have that brand name behind it.
"What keeps Trek from falling into the "cult" classification is the ongoing production." Negative. To play one side of the coin for a moment, the second most of the population knows or recognizes the word "Klingon," it has stopped being a cult show, *on a philosophical level*. And that happened long before TNG ever went into production. That happened over the 20 years the original three-season ST was in syndication.
To play the other side of it...I hate to break it to you, but media SF is STILL considered a "cult" area, by critics, by networks, by the press, by most of the population. A very small portion of viewers watch SF, including ST. It may seem to you otherwise, because as SF fans we're nominally in the fishbowl, but it's true. In syndication, you need far fewer ratings points to survive. Overall, neither TNG nor DS9 got anywhere near decent network ratings, though there were a few times in TNG's history -- the pilot and a couple others -- where it approached that. Put onto a network series list, they would both be where ST:V is right now...in the cellar.
So, overall, I think the entire thesis of the panel is flawed, and proceeds from the trap of accepted cliche, misinformation and fuzzy thinking that has little to do with the realities of TV and culture.
Now to the main point of *my* thesis here.
I'm frankly tired as hell of "ST vs. B5" or "ST/B5" panels, however they're couched. They are separate shows, they have nothing to do with one another, they're as different as night and day, and the only reason to put them into the same panel is to start a fracas or take a philosophical position by defined contrariness. And, fundamentally, it continues to put ST at the center of the universe. We're going on our third season now, and things look good for seasons thereafter. We've carved out our own identity. Why can't we be taken or discussed on our own? Why does there always have to be this nutty feud?
Are you going to be doing ST/Quantum Leap panels? Will there be any X-Files/Star Trek panels? No, because they're nothing like Star Trek, AND NEITHER ARE WE. Yet everywhere we go, ST follows us around like Marley's Ghost, rattling its chains and dominating the conversation.
"Can Babylon 5 replace Trek as THE icon of SF?...without a continued run." First off, THE icon to whom? To core ST viewers? Of course not. To core B5 viewers? In many cases, it already has. You equate numbers of episodes to quality of episodes. Many SF writers have written MORE novels than Robert Heinlein...but how many have written them BETTER? And which is more an icon of SF? Who is this person who decides what a media or print SF *ICON* is?
The Oxford American Dictionary defines "icon" as, "a painting or mosaic of a sacred person, *itself* regarded as sacred." If that's the Pointy Hat under discussion, I'd rather pass, all things considered. I don't WANT this show to become an ICON. I want to tell this story, about these people. You can't sit there worrying if it's going to become a Huge Eternal Monster, or some revered icon, or anything that comes after the fact. That way lies madness. You can only concentrate on telling the story, and making the program, as best you can. If the audience finds you, and likes it, you get to stay on the air and finish your story; if not, you don't. That simple.
Nothing personal in this, btw, this isn't a flame, and I'm not annoyed, I'm just trying to answer the question honestly. And yes, the info you provided re: BB was most helpful.
jms
******
Understood. No healing needed; it wasn't directed at you as much as the topic.
I do understand your point; but I still don't think it's valid. If by cult you mean, as you say, "anyone who is a fan of something that is no more," not being produced, then EVERY TV series ever produced, that is now no longer being produced, becomes a "cult" show. Again, that broadens the definition to the point where it's essentially meaningless. Specificity In Language Is Our Friend.
The other point that I forgot to bring up in an already overlong reply was this: you ask, can B5 "become the mainstream reference to SF?" For starters, it shouldn't, because then, for the mainstream SF = B5, and I don't think that's correct. The whole point of the exercise is to broaden out and encourage MORE SF on the air. What is the mainstream reference for cop shows? Is it CANNON? HILL ST. BLUES? NYPD BLUE? DRAGNET? There are so many of them, there isn't one clear point of reference. That is the goal with SF, to get people to understand that there isn't any one thing that is a reference point to SF.
What would it be in literature? Heinlein? Asimov? Clark? Ellison? Ashton-Smith? Russell? Simak? Bradbury? Anybody who says that Writer X is THE reference point in SF would be laughed out of the room. The only reason that ST has kind of "been" that by default is that there hasn't been much ELSE in 30 years that's been even moderately successful. Once that changes, you'll get to the *proper* definition of SF, as advanced by (I believe) Asimov, who said, "SF is whatever I point to when I say, 'That's SF.'"
(Which, by the way, is one of Paramount's greatest fears. Until now, they've had a lock on the genre, and ST has thus been special, and they're worried that if there are lots of space genre shows around, that ST won't be *special* anymore, and will have to compete on its own merits.)
The other thing to consider in all this is the cultural aspect. Will there ever be another Beatles? No. Because as well as their artistic contributions, the Beatles occupy a very special place in music history; they were nominally the first really big breakthrough for what we now consider modern rock. They were the biggest. They changed the field of rock forever, redefined it, gave it tools that did not exist before, gave it a measure of legitimacy it did not have before. Many other bands since have sold more records, but none will ever occupy that primary, pivotal position in our culture. There cannot be another Beatles, and you cannot define another group in that light, despite every six months somebody coming out and saying that X is "the new Beatles."
Ditto Star Trek. It is very much a product of its time, and it fills that same kind of pivotal role in SF television. It changed SF TV back in the 1960s, no mistake. It occupies a unique niche in American television that cannot be replicated. Which is why I've always run from reporters who ask if this is the next Star Trek, if I'm "the next Roddenberry," and the like, because there can't be either, any more than somebody is the next Beatles.
The fundamental problem is that after ST went off the air, nobody picked up the ball they'd created and ran with it. They chipped at the stereotype of SF, and broke some of it, but nobody followed through with another show. DRAGNET changed forever cop shows; prior to then, they were always considered low-ratings shows, of interest only to those who like police procedurals. For all its stiffness, DRAGNET showed cops with real lives, drinking problems, debts, marriages, dinners, dating...and in very short order, other shows followed suit. Had that not happened, cop shows that came 20 years later would've been compared with Dragnet, since that would be the only reference point. But it *did* happen with Dragnet...and it *didn't* happen with Star Trek.
The larger the possibilities, the less likely ANYthing is to be a "reference point." And that, to me, is the goal.
jms
******
What happened is...basically...Joe is a moron.
I did my research. I called up the info on the encyclopedia, got all the dates right, and my eyes saw East End and for whatever stupid, idiotic reason, my fingers typed West instead of East, and nobody, NObody, caught it until now. I'd loop it, but alas the line is on his face, and it'd look real stupid, and the delivery is *so* perfect as it is; if we looped it, we'd destroy it.
So I content myself with the notion that it's west...of B5.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shoot myself.
jms
*****
Why bring up Sebastian's past? Because it's integral to who he is now, and what he's doing, and why he's doing it. Also, there's something very important here about greying up the Vorlons a little; of all the people they could've chosen for this job, why THIS kind of person? It makes them a trifle more morally ambiguous, which is necessary.
jms
****
For some time, I've been cautioning people dealing in pirated material; videotapes, Links, PPGs, the whole gamut. The usual reaction from those involved is, basically, screw off, on the grounds that there's plenty of ST pirated stuff out there, and nobody does anything about it. Well, for starters, that's because there's a lot of grey about the copyright during the period during which ST wasn't being produced, and the copyright wasn't being enforced. Second...we're not ST. A mistake many pirates continue to make, to their detriment.
To the pirates out there, be warned: Warner Bros. is prosecuting these cases to the full extent of the law. Case in point: I saw bootleg copies of B5 episodes for sale at the Chicago ComicCon, confiscated them, and told the person selling them, David Scott, *not* to do this anymore, because if he did, we would come down on him...hard. His reaction was basically a shrug.
So this same person showed up at San Diego Comic Con, selling the same B5 tapes. WB was notified. And the FBI showed up and seized the material. And that of the other shows he was selling. He tried to make light of it at the time, nobody follows through on this stuff, after all. Wrong again. He has been prosecuted by Time Warner Entertainment, with charges filed in United States District Court (case number 92-1602 H POR), and there has already been a judgment rendered to the tune of *thousands* of dollars.
To the pirates out there: be warned. We're not kidding around. We will take you down, hard. Especially those selling the poor-quality videotapes, and those selling supposed "real props" from the series, which are simply cheap knockoffs with expensive price tags to separate fans from their money.
(And to the OTHER dealer in Chicago, who was selling fake PPGs and other items, from whom I confiscated the illegal goods, and has since been mouthing off to other dealers that in lawfully confiscating this material I "shoplifted" -- and I confiscated this stuff in front of several witnesses, and put the dealer on notice as to what I was doing -- by all means, continue running your mouth; you assiduously didn't have an address anywhere available, and your behavior will simply make it that much easier for us to find you.)
One of the reasons that I'm very careful on what we do and don't license is that I want them to be done *right* when they're done; as a fan, I've grown to despair over cheap knockoffs whose exorbitant price tags only feed the sharks that made them. I won't have inferior quality products out there, licensed or otherwise. We take great pains to make everything involved with this show of the highest quality, and will not allow anyone outside to hinder that effort.
jms
*****
Or one could say it's West of Babylon 5.
No, no, it's hopeless...I'll have to turn in my writer's card.
jms
*****
Okay, let me turn it around and put to you the question I had to work with in this episode. I needed a character who had taken the notion of a "holy cause" and gone to extremes, people died at his hands; his fate had to be a mystery, unresolved, so one could justify the idea that the Vorlons had taken him; it had to be someone not current, to avoid harming families who survived real, current killers; someone widely enough known to have coinage around the world; and someone visually striking. Someone who, as Delenn noted, approached the right idea (cleaning up Spittlefields) in the wrong way, and for the wrong reasons...also an egotist.
This led me to Jack as necessity, not just thrown in for effect. It came directly out of the needs of the story. So if you can find me someone else who fits those criteria, I'd love to hear it.
jms
******
<Your analysis is *exactly* correct>
<There's an awful lot going on in this show, a great deal of it sub rosa, under the surface, implied in gestures or hesitations or looks, some implied, some stated outright>
'CiT' was an episode written and played on many levels. The more effort you put into watching it the more understanding and enjoyment you get out of it. I find its the same with many episodes of B5, but I think 'Inquisitor' managed it best.
<Also, check Sebastian's reaction when he asks Delenn what if she's wrong, "have you ever considered that? HAVE YOU?"
She responds, softly, "....yes."
Look at his face when she says this. It rattles him. It's not the answer he expected, but more important, it's not the answer he wanted, needed to hear. He needed to hear her say that she had never had the slightest *scintilla* of doubt, that as he had been, she was a True Believer, a fanatic, incapable of doubt of mistake...and thus doomed to failure. He can't even meet her gaze; he turns, looks away, and suggests an "intermission" that is more for his benefit than hers.>
Yes, this was another facet of the show that struck me. The depth of Sebastian's character is far than many stories manage to reach in even their primary characters, and it was magical to watch.
A further example of the depth of the writing was when Delenn offered to die in Sheridan's place. As soon as she did this I thought "*%$&! She's just admitted she can die, that maybe she isn't destined! Thats a niche in her armour that Sebastian could use to break her." But then I thought "Nah, how often is a show written that goes that deep." 5 seconds later, Sebastian jumps on this very point. Utterly fantastic. My apologies for doubting you, Joe.
Chris Gardiner
*****
Your analysis is *exactly* correct.
Also, check Sebastian's reaction when he asks Delenn what if she's wrong, "have you ever considered that? HAVE YOU?"
She responds, softly, "....yes."
Look at his face when she says this. It rattles him. It's not the answer he expected, but more important, it's not the answer he wanted, needed to hear. He needed to hear her say that she had never had the slightest *scintilla* of doubt, that as he had been, she was a True Believer, a fanatic, incapable of doubt of mistake...and thus doomed to failure. He can't even meet her gaze; he turns, looks away, and suggests an "intermission" that is more for his benefit than hers.
There's an awful lot going on in this show, a great deal of it sub rosa, under the surface, implied in gestures or hesitations or looks, some implied, some stated outright. He *hates* the memory of Jack; it's not his name, the one thing that is his...remember, he is caught up with "who ARE you?" and his answer to that is lost in the persona created by history...his true name, is what's totally forgotten to history.
jms
*****
I disagree.
Everything Joe does he does for a reason. And because he's such a good storyteller, everything one of his characters does or says does it because *at that time, in that place, in that situation, that character would behave in that manner*.
For the 1st time in 400 years Sebastian had been proved wrong in his new cause. His entire life had just been torn down because not only was he wrong about his own calling but the fact that there are people out there who *do* have a calling renders him even more worthless. Finding out that his initial calling (the murders) was a product of his own mind would have severely shaken his depest beliefs. In order to salvage what he could he would have grabbed on to anything. In this case it was his task as Inquisitor. This allowed him to regain some self-esteem by proving, time and time again, that while he had no calling NEITHER DID ANYONE ELSE.
When he found that Delenn and Sheridan were destined, then, he had lost the last reason of his life, everything he was meant nothing. This was the reason for the speech on why no-one remembered him (at least as he had intended to be remembered).
His parting shot of "remembered only...as Jack" Was partly aimed at hurting Sheridan (who Jack would now resent, and what would annoy Sheridan more than having to let a murderer go free?) and partly because the label 'Jack' that he is now referred to by carries with it (to those who hear it) memories of a mad and evil man, and nothing of the 'reason' behind Jacks actions (which is, after all, why he did what he did). Sebastian would hate the name Jack, and this emotion was put across very effectively by Wayne Alexander in that last word.
If he had said "remembered only...as Jack the Ripper" It would have been pandering to stupidity, but he didn't, so it wasn't.
Chris Gardiner
*****
Yes, I have a voice like five thousand moths dying simultaneously in a very large bowl of tea.
jms
*****
Depends on how you define knockoffs. If she walked into a store and found xeroxed copies of her book for sale, that's absolute, blatant copyright infringement, and can be confiscated. This is a similar situation. But you don't just "fill your bag with the offending items and depart." You go directly to the person running it, show them the item, and tell them exactly what you are doing, why you are doing it, what law they have broken, and that you are confiscating this illegal material.
If they make a fuss over it, then what you do is to go find the nearest security person or police officer, put them into contact with the WB Legal Affairs office, and they will fax a note authorizing the police to not only confiscate the material, but to seize any *related* material, AND to press both civil and criminal charges against the person. If that means bringing the FBI in, so be it. They have a whole division specifically to protect tv and film product against copyright infringement, particularly video pirates.
So it's in the best interests of the person at the dealer's table to cooperate. I'm fully authorized to do this, and they don't have a legal leg to stand on, and they know it. So it's best to just warn them, and take it, and hope they stop. They get one chance to do it right. After that....
If they choose to turn cranky, well, that's their perogative, and I won't carry anything out...I'll just have their butt arrested, charged, and fined.
jms
******
It gets lonely in space. REAL lonely. But hey, how lucky do you expect a guy to be when he hangs a picture of Daffy Duck over his bed?
Let's face it, the folks inhabiting B5 aren't exactly well- adjusted. Most of them couldn't get a date if the fate of the galaxy depended on it. (Which, apparently, it does.) So to pass the time, they hang out in the local taverns in the Zocalo and take their best shot.
In our neverending effort to bring you all you want to know about B5, we spent considerable time in those establishments and put together ...
THE TOP TEN PICKUP LINES
IN A BABYLON 5 BAR
10. Is that a na'ka'leen feeder in your pocket, or are you just happy
to see me?
9. I don't like to talk about it, but a Minbari soul dwells within
me.
8. Once you've had a Narn, you'll never go back.
7. You *are* going to resist, aren't you?
6. So which half is human and which half is Minbari?
5. Come to my place, and I'll show you my second favorite thing in
the universe.
4. Why yes, I *do* direct movies for ISN.
3. Want to try this? It's either an aphrodesiac or a floor wax.
2. It *is* true what they say about we Vorlons being ... gifted.
AND THE #1 PICKUP LINE IN A BABYLON 5 BAR:
1. What do you want?
Stephen
*****
They believe in a variety of afterlives; the god you worship, of the centauri pantheon, holds dominion over a given "heaven" or afterworld. If you appease the god sufficiently during life, it will accept you into that afterworld, in preparation for the day when all heavens are united; if not, you will have to be reborn and choose another until one accepts you.
jms
*****
Yeah, that seems to be the tendency; each time we've introduced someone, it's gotten hammered...nobody liked Ivanova in the beginning, they said she was nothing but an ice maiden...they made fun of Vir, said he was nothing more than comic relief, ridiculous, had no business being assigned to Londo...there were grave doubts about Londo and the hair...Sinclair got hammered in the beginning...Sheridan got hammered in the beginning...and each time people assumed that what the character seemed to be at the start was all the person would ever be. Even when it was shown that other characters grew into something other, still it was hard for a lot of folks to assume that this new character would do the same, and become interesting over time.
jms
*****
Since "The Fall of Night" has now aired in the UK, and word is getting out, herewith a post I left on GEnie about Kosh's now-revealed identity. I thought it came out fairly well, so I'm repeating it here.
*****
Okay. Here it is. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna reveal Kosh.
I'm not kidding. Bail now if you're looking in and don't want to know.
No backsies.
I mean it.
Last chance.
Okay, this is it.
"If he leaves his encounter suit, he will be recognized." "By who?" "Everyone."
"The First Ones taught the younger races, explored beyond the rim, built civilizations...."
Kosh is what you're pointing at when you say "That's Kosh."
"Yes, the Vorlons have been to Earth, the Vorlons have been everywhere. The Vorlons *are*."
They *are*.
"For centuries, the Vorlons have helped the younger races, guiding us, and --" "And manipulating us?" "It is, as you say, a matter...of perspective."
They *are*...a matter of perspective.
Each race who sees them, sees something out of their own past, their own legends, religions, faiths. A being of light, if you will, but a Drazi sees the Drazi version of that, Droshalla; the Minbari see the Minbari version of that, Valeria; humans see a human version of that.
It is the mirror in which we see our beliefs reflected, but is it the progenitor of those beliefs...or an implanted image that overlays that vision on top of the true form of the Vorlon? Is it revelation, or is it manipulation?
The Vorlons are a cypher. The Vorlons are a matter of perspective. The Vorlons are guides...or users, emissaries or puppeteers, who wish to be seen a certain way, so that we will react properly.
Is this good, or is this bad?
And the truth is, even though you have seen a Vorlon, have you seen THE Vorlon, the one behind the image that dances somewhere between your optic nerve and your brain?
Or to quote a message I left long ago, paraphrased from memory, "The hand Sinclair sees is not the hand Sinclair sees, and the hand Sinclair sees is not the same hand someone else in the room sees, and is not even the hand that that person sees."
The Vorlons Are.
jms
*****
>> Corridor
A female C&C op is going to snitch ! :-( <<
It's the pilot who got Keffer at the start, Delta 7. She ISN'T wearing a Nightwatch brassard.
>> Star furies are scrambled to suround the Centauri. <<
The Furies actually surround and then escort the Narn cruiser. When fire is opened Keffer detaches half his ships to assist B5.
Notes on the battle:
Both sides escalate step by step, Sheridan orders Ivanova to deploy the defence grid, the Centauri open their gunports and target B5, the Furies and the Narn, B5 returns the complement by targetting the Centauri BC and giving Keffer return fire rules of engagement. Sheridan orders the blast doors closed as the noise/frequency of the Centauri sensor system (presumably an audio feed from B5 ESM systems) increases. The C&C operator reports a power spike on the Centauri ship and it opens fire.
The Centauri ship engages both targets simultaneously, implying at least two primary weapons batteries, rate of fire is very high. The weapon appears to be the standard ship mounted plasma weapon seen so far. B5 replies with the interceptor part of the defence grid, four-barrelled energy weapons, presumably also a plasma weapon. These are quite capable of stopping an individual plasma bolt, but the high rate of fire from the Centauri ship causes the system to overheat and loose efficiency. The Narn ship does not fire during the battle and at least one escorting Fury is hit and damaged.
B5 is hit as the interceptor system overloads. A plasma-bolt stream hits and severs the starboard jaw of the docking system. Sheridan decides enough is enough and orders a time on target salvo (implying everything should reach the Centauri ship at the same time, overwhelming its point defence systems). The other two weapon systems in the defense grid now come into action: a second four-barrelled weapon, drum-fed from two magazines - I'd assume this is a gauss weapon, and what appears to be a starship calibre plasma gun, with a muzzle apparently as big across as each of the other two entire weapon mounts. The interceptors are also shown firing, possibly implying they have an offensive mode. As the salvo arrives at the Centauri BC (and for time on target it's pretty ragged) the Furies make firing passes, pivoting as they go to keep their weapons oriented on the BC and firing all the time. The BC suffers multiple hits from at least two B5 weapon systems and is subject to at least two passes by the Furies. She's left dead in space and blows up before B5 can launch any rescue shuttles.
Comments on the battle:
Someone forgot to hit the klaxon to warn the civilians.
The escalation was very like that reported between NATO and Russian ships when the Russians were in the mood for playing 'chicken'.
The new defence grid looks pretty capable, it just took down a capital ship, but only half that ship's weaponry was turned on B5 and the station still took fairly heavy damage.
No one remembered to call Draal for help. Perhaps Sheridan decided he didn't need it, the battle was also over very quickly.
>> Voice over by Ivanova. Basically it's a sort of extended version of what we're told the 3rd session intro will be. Things are going from bad to worse. <<
Ivanova is shown lighting her Menorah, the scene cuts to the Zocalo, where the shopkeeper Zack was bullied into informing on is seen been led away by B5 security with Nightwatch armbands, his shop is closed up and a notice fixed to the window 'Closed by MoP pending investigations for sedition'. Zack looks sick...
This last scene is powerful, Krystalnacht is coming.
David
*****
Actually, no, not really; Kosh is what you see when you look at him. And if a Drazi looks at him, the Drazi sees something different than a Minbari; yes, a being of light, BUT....
Is that what they actually ARE, or how they have programmed us to react when we see them? As Sheridan said, have we been *manipulated* to seeing them a certain way, seeing a certain image? We may not be seeing what they ARE, but what they WANT us to see.
It goes a heck of a lot deeper than what it seems.
jms
*****
It wasn't intended that Delenn should touch Draal; it sorta happened on the set, and no one really noticed, and it wasn't worth going back and reshooting the whole thing. My sense is that if it's like a virtual reality situation, she would "feel" it even though it's not there, if the image was impinging correctly on the brain.
But in either event, the image is not and should not be considered to be solid.
As for Londo's shot...the director called "cut" I think a bit too soon, we used every frame we had to extend that shot (and, in fact, we even went so far as to freeze the final frame and extend the shot by a smidge, if you look at it carefully). Nonetheless, I think it works pretty spiffily.
As for the mass drivers, the amount of energy required to move something that big would generate huge amounts of heat, possibly making them even white-hot, hence the glow.
Anyway, thanks for the comments; I do think it's possibly either the best, or one of the best shows to that point.
jms
*****
I just saw DL and TLTS...
First DL. Very disturbing episode on a number of levels. My first impression is that our heros are pretty damn cold. *They* fried Talia. There seemed to be no discussion whatever about the fact that they were essentially sentencing someone to death. This was the same as having a gun which would randomly kill one innocent person and reveal one traitor and they dropped the hammer without a second thought. This is *not* a criticism. I understand that they had little choice, *but* it is an interesting observation on the state of morality of the "good guys".
My only real issue is that I believe that the possibility of arranging an "accident" for Talia should have at least been discussed. They had the balls to kill their friend to save their own lives, they should have found the strength to carry it through to it's logical end. In my mind Talia 2 is a murderer who *will* kill again. She deserves death. I think that (in)decision will come back to haunt them.
Now on to TLTS. My god Joe...what can I say. The acting, the CGI, the photography...direct hit on all counts. The story is simply amazing, I can't stop watching it. Out of respect I am going to pick a very *few* nits. Normally I don't preface these sorts of comments, but I want you to understand that this episode is a 9.95 in my book. My comments are one technical and a couple aesthetic, but TLTS is so far beyond *anything* anyone is doing on television I want you to understand I am scoring B5 against B5 *no one* is even *close* to you.
First the technical point. Not really a criticism but a question. Delenn *touched* Drall. Was that image *solid*? How is that possible? ST does forcefields and "virtual matter" at the drop of a hat, but you *never* do, and have explicitly forbidden transporter like technology. If solid images can be projected, that makes "shields" possible. Have we seen these. Is that why the Shadows could just waltz through the energy mines? Shields bespeak a level of technology orders of magnitude more powerful than any we have seen thus far. Of course, if they exist,that is where one would expect to find them.
Now the aesthetic concerns. There are only two:
First. The scene aboard the Centauri Battleship was simply beyond description. I was awed by the power of the sequence, the music, and the architecture of the ship. The Centauri are very human in appearance and it is easy to mistake them for misplaced Florantine Dukes. The sequence made the Centauri ships look...alien...foreboding. It reminded me of something out of Dune. It was awesome. The best thing I have *ever* seen on B5, but, it could have been even better. It was about three seconds too short (in my opinion) and the music ended too abruptly. The driving somber tones of the Requiem for Narn *actually lilted up* at the transition from the scene. For me it totally destroyed the illusion *just as it ended*. I wish it had ended buuuuummmm buummmmm, with possibly a zoom into Londo's striken eye combined with a fade to black. Had it done that I probably wouldn't even remember what happened in the next scene.
Secondly, I am not sure Sheridan's final speech worked for me. I don't know why, but it struck me as a bit forced. Then again, It seemed better the second time around, so it may have been my digestion.
Oh, one last thing. I think Mass Drive sounds better with the stress on the word Mass rather than Driver.
I wasn't sure I liked the new Drall, until I viewed the episode again, then I decided I really liked him. He's a pain. He is also a pedant of the Old School.
One small technical question (if you gave this some thought, and I suspect you did). Why did the rocks glow when fired from the Mass Drivers? Were they simply stones or some sort of "doped" mass designed to penetrate the atmosphere with as little friction damage as possible?
One last political question. Did I hear correctly? The *Vorlon* protested the Centauri use of Mass Drivers? I though they "didn't concern themselves with the affairs of others" and thought the Narn and Centauri "were a dying people," and "we should let them pass." Would not the Centauri have been *greatly disturbed* to receive a protest from the Almighty Vorlon?
Oh yeah, since I haven't mentioned the Narn--Shadow battle. Just one question, since you are a major perpetrator. Why is evil always *so* cool?
Phil ^^^^
FREE MARS!
*****
Actually, the "snitch" was the C&C tech, NOT the pilot, they just have a somewhat similar appearance.
We've established that klaxons go off elsewhere in the station during an attack to warn civilians, but they aren't going off in C&C because they make it impossible to concentrate, as per military tradition (see "And Now For a Word" to confirm this).
There wasn't time to call Draal, and they can't begin relying on him for every problem; they have to be able to hold their own. You would only bring in Draal on something really major.
jms
****
Londo saw what he said he saw.
jms
*****
There are a number of metaphors in the show that operate on many different levels; it can't be a one-to-one corrolary to WW II, because that limits and makes predictable your story.
In musical terms, it's almost a tonal piece, taking elements to which we respond, almost subconsciously, and then rearranging them into something that is, one hopes, a new construct. You can find here echoes of Vietnam, of Kennedy, of Chamberlain, of WW II, of Korea, of the Mideast; in a way, it's a thematic piece that touches how we have come to think of war, and conflict, across the development of the 20th century, and the role of the individual in that regard.
We have learned to think of war as something now on a huge scale, an entity in itself. Once upon a time, before the gatling gun and the automatic rifle, combat was something individual, even in larger wars, one person against the enemy...and that person was honored, one person could turn the tide against the enemy. In a world in which weapons of mass destruction exist, where then is the individual? Where then the bravery, the struggle, the triumph...and the failure? Where, fundamentally, is the responsibility?
All of that is intertwined with the storyline, and to communicate that I'm not averse to taking elements of history that resonate with that theme and reworking them, knowing that on a cellular level, we *recognize* that aspect, we've seen it...but now in a new context, we can see it differently, discuss its implications, *learn* from it.
This is one of the things I rarely talk about, because it's the kind of thing that is best left simply implied, or implicit, in the work, and because if you have to draw attention to something in the work, somehow I think it lessens it, because it works best unspoken. And because I guess it sounds kinda presumptuous, and high-falutin' and self-indulgent. But it's one the things that matters to me in the context of the story.
jms
******
Yes, there would be some amount of variation among humans, though not in terms of beliefs that may have come along post-Vorlon influence. This sort of thing has been implanted almost at a genetic level, and they do have a hand, or a mind, in activating it when seen. The more people who see them in different ways, the longer they must maintain that, the greater the strain on them.
And someday, some happy, distant day, we do hope to have widescreen laser disks, but that day is not yet in sight.
jms
*****
Thanks. And finding Kosh slightly righteous is pretty much the desired intent. So you're clicking on all the right cylinders.
jms
*****
Joe Straczynski looks like a very small engine pulling a huge caboose.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joseph Straczynski is too hard to say, even for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J.M. Straczynski just looks dorky and cumbersome.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Michael Straczynski, however, gives you a chance to sneak up on the
last name...a little squib, one letter, nice and inoffensive, then a longer
name, and then the big one. It looks balanced on-screen. It's fairly easy
to say.
It's also a good "gatekeeper" of sorts; if the phone rings and it's
someone who asks for Michael, I know instantly it's nobody I know
personally.
jms
*****
No, they didn't phase out so much as absorb the energy, at cost of great pain.
jms
****
What, I should begin catering to prurient interests? Broadcasting picture postcards (likely French) of Vorlons in provocative poses, in lingerie? A terrible thing, that a nice young man such as yourself should be asking about. Does your mother know you're out here doing this? Good heavens.
And who said they reproduce anymore?
jms
*****
What's this fascination with underoos and sheets and uncut something or others...?
Have you started rooming with Daniel or something?
Sigh...y'know, I remember when this was a clean place to hang out, kids could play in the streets, mothers could take their babies out in strollers, you could hang out on the front stoop and talk to people...now it's all underoos and nudie cutie Vorlon pictures.
What's the world coming to?
jms
*****
Thanks. Characters, for me, are the point of a novel, and any good story. Long after the plot becomes fuzzy in memory, you remember the people...you remember Ahab and Michael Valentine Smith and Charles Dexter Ward....
Re: not having adjective/adverb disease...there's something funny there you wouldn't know about. See, when I was in high school, they had Career Day for the tops in various areas (dance, acting, athletics, whatever). I ended up in the Writing group. It was held at Southwestern College down by San Diego. I was stuck in this little room, and nobody came by, because who wants to see writers when you can see athletes and dancers and mimes?
Finally, a short fellow with salt-and-pepper hair wandered in, and went down the line of manuscripts-with-writers, paused at my table. (I was writing stories in the Lovecraft/dark horror vein at the time.) Took one of my stories, walked off, sat in one of the lawn chairs, read it through. Came back, returned the story, took another. Read that one over. Put it back. Looked at me for a long moment.
Then he said: "You have a great and substantial talent for your age. Two pieces of advice: one, don't ever let them stop you from telling the stories you want to tell; two, cut every third adjective."
Then he walked off, and as soon as he was out the door, the faculty advisor came running at me at warp nine. "What did he say, what did he say, whatdidhesay?" I told her. "Don't you know who that was?" she asked.
I said no, though there was something kinda familiar about him, and remember it's always different when you see somebody out of context. "That was Rod Serling," she said, "he's here to speak at the college later today."
Had there been a gun within easy reach, I would almost certainly have put a bullet into my brain. By the time I ran out, he was gone.
That was one of three weirdnesses in my life involving Rod. The other two...are stories for another day.
So when you say I've managed to keep the adjectives down...I'm very pleased.
jms
*****
Yeah, "Messages from Earth" came out quite well as a script; can't wait for it to roll before the cameras.
As it happens, episodes 8, 9 and 10 ("Messages," "Point of No Return," and "Severed Dreams") are kind of a triptych, linked at the hip and designed to pull together/blow out several major hanging plot threads once and for all, and send the show spinning off in an entirely different direction. The hardest one to write was 10, because it's a very emotional episode for the characters, and for me.
And next is #11, which I begin to write this weekend...and #11, year three, is the *exact* midpoint of the 5 year story. This is the hump, the dead center of the journey. It took so long to get here, and suddenly we're halfway finished.
jms
*****
Ellen: thanks. As for the episode in question, it's entitled "Point of No Return," and the role of Lady Morella was written specifically for Majel. I hustled to get it finished prior to the Wolf 359 convention, where I gave her a copy of the script. She read it overnight, and fell in love with the story, the character, and what it was going to do with and to the BABYLON 5 universe (to wit: start turning it upside down). Next morning, she said "I'm in." And she is.
Yes, it's a jms script, and is one of the most pivotal of this season, episode #9, which with the one before it, "Messages from Earth," builds to a major turning point in #10, so it should be a very popular, intense and memorable episode in every respect.
jms
*****
>>
I wonder when something that good will come to TV?
<<
Give B5 another chance. I know it has some problems: a corny opening sequence, occasional flat dialogue, somewhat shallow characters (with the possible exception of Ambassador Vir).
But, it has plusses that more than compensate: decent science (note the way their fighters are launched using the habitat's centrifugal gravity), complex and (mostly) believable plots and deep, deep background with a series-long, multi-stranded storyline [long-time B5'rs may want to point out my mistakes]:
On the edges of the galaxy, something has awakened an ancient evil--wait till you see their starships--which once nearly conquered everything and was only beaten back by a desparate union of the then extant spacefaring species *and* the help of a super-race who have since disappeared, leaving a single, enigmatic representative currently on B5. These nasties--whom we have yet to see--are growing in power and slowly enmeshing many species in their plan to--well, they ain't gonna build a shopping mall.
They have have entrapped the ambitious Centauran Ambassador, Vir--the guy with the funny hair--in a major, Faustian sub-plot. He didn't quite know what he was getting into, but is, with slowly awakening horror, beginning to catch-on and, in the process, becoming the series most interesting character. (Things have happened. He's developing compassion and an ethos in exact and tragic lock-step with his realization that he's trapped.) Trust me: you get used to the hair.
In B5, the sub-plots have sub-plots: The Centaurans have a long back-story history of rivalry with another species, the Narn, whom they apparently uplifted and then, for a time, enslaved, until a rebellion which took place about a hundred years ago. What Vir has done, at the instigation of guess-who, is start a war with them, which the Centaurans are winning--again, with judicious help from the nasties, whoes ships materialize in a battle just long enough to turn the tide, without either side being aware of their presence.
[Inhale!]
Meanwhile, back on Earth, the president has been assasinated--though it was made to look like an accident--and the remnants of a planetary pseudo-democracy are succumbing to the machinations of something called Psycorps, ironically created to "protect"--i.e.,repress and control--people with psy talents
...and this ain't half of it!
The key thing to realize is that this isn't a fake background story of unrelated parts, in which nothing ever really happens or is resolved (or is ignored for months and years only to be abruptly and unsatisfactorily resolved in one episode, a-la STNJ); it's a full blown story, with a beginning, a middle, a climax and an end, and it gets developed week-by-week *along with* and as a sub-plot to each self-contained weekly episode, which also tell their own multi-plotted stories.
*Whew!* With all this going on, it's a good thing a lot of the plot-strands are things we've seen before, or who could keep up with it?
Each of--I think--seven main characters has a back-story, and so does each of three alien species, and B5 as a whole has back-story in which Earth has already fought more than one interstallar war, loosing the second (though you're not supposed to say so).
In short, you have to give this one a few episodes to grab you, but it *will* grab you. Then make sure you locate some friends with video-tapes of the episodes you've missed, because you're going to want them.
Enjoy!
******
Except, of course, that there wasn't "a quick directional change by offering a new enemy" (in second season) because that enemy - the Shadows -- was in there right from the git-go, in season one...in "Chrysalis," which we shot #12 even though it was aired #22 as our cliffhanger, and in "Signs and Portents," short shortly thereafter. So it was always there, and has always been there...they're the primary antagonist, in a philosophical sense, throughout a major part of the story.
"...and the mutation of another primary character." This, also, was in the outline of the story from the very first episode onward; it's *important* to the story, and wasn't done for any of the reasons you cite. (The only change here was that Delenn was originally planned to be a male character, if androgynous, which emerged female from the chrysalis, but we couldn't get the male-altered voice to sound right, so this was dropped, though we kept the more-human aspects.)
You seem to determine "the maturity of the show" by not offering real or substantive changes; but this show is *about* change, and the choices we make that create those changes. There's this notion that if someone's the captain, he has to stay the captain all the time; which is the element that many ST fans criticize in TNG as to why Riker stayed first-officer for seven years, which would kill any other career.
So it's not a reset, it's an advancement of the storyline...look at Londo as we first saw him, and now; ditto for G'Kar...we're talking here major, substantive changes. That aspect is at the very core of the story. You really can't look at this as you would a regular episodic drama in that one respect; "Oh, they just changed characters, so they're just starting all over again." That's not the intent at all.
"the show (TNG) stayed with its basic core of characters and followed a similar structure...B5 episodes seem to detract from this formula." Which is precisely the intent. I don't like formula, or predictability, or to lock down a structure and never change it...that's not life, and I try to make this show emulate life. People change, die, get promoted, demoted, transferred, corrupted, redeemed...change, for me, is the *drama* of the story; to stay static and unchanging the reverse of that. It's *process*, and I find process fascinating.
"I guess patience is a virtue." Well, I have to say that if you're waiting for B5 to settle down into a predictable, unchanging formula, you're going to have a long wait ahead of you, because that's not in the cards. The changes and developments only pick up greater speed and ramifications the deeper we go into the storyline.
jms
(PS...as for "all or some of the credit" for the new SF shows going to ST, much as one might wish that were true, it isn't. Otherwise you'd've had a lot more of them in the last 30 years. I've been in meetings with network and studio execs, and one reason it took us 5 years to sell B5 was because, as we were told verbatim, "There's no market in TV for SF other than Trek; the market won't sustain more than one SF show like that; people don't want SF, they want ST." It was used, repeatedly, to justify why you couldn't do these kinds of shows...and I'd point out that B5 is the FIRST SF show in 30 years, since ST, to be set in the far future, with mankind as a spacefaring civilization, and with a fully worked out cosmology of other races, politics, and governments...and particularly one of the very few to go past two seasons in general. Now you're getting more SF on the air because the networks have finally seen that ST does NOT have a death-grip on TV SF, and other shows, like B5 and X-Files *can* survive.
(Certainly it was never ST's intent for this to happen, and I'm not saying that it is or was; but this has definitely been the result, and the ST shadow has been something for other SF shows to overcome; it has not made the process easier, only more difficult. How many American-made space SF series have gone past 3 seasons other than ST? It's after 4 seasons that the networks/studios begin making back their money, and since the answer to that is "virtually none," you begin to see why they've been reluctant to do more than stick their toes in over the last three decades.)
jms
*****
If I had to look back at season 2 and pick favorites, they'd probably be "The Long, Twilight Struggle," "Comes the Inquisitor," and "The Coming of Shadows." "Coming" is probably the one episode I'd say is most perfect, the most purely B5.
In year one, I thought there were a couple/three eps that just lay there and begged to be shot and put out of their misery. But I don't think we had even one like that in year two. Some were stronger than others, but not one dropped below a certain median high point over year one.
So far, year three is another general step up, with our least episode this season so far being the equal of some of the better year two episodes.
What makes for a perfect episode of B5 in my view? It's kinda hard to define. It's an episode where major and irreversible events take place, which were absolutely set up from what went before, and which turn on the individual choices made by our characters; episodes that have about them the feel of a car absolutely out of control, that ANYthing could happen...the kind of episode that makes you start insinctively reaching for the brake pedal, but it doesn't do any good. And, finally, those that have a nice visual sense of style. I've gradually grown more consistently fond of the montage as a dramatic device, though I'm being careful not to over-use it. (I *really* liked the intercutting in the Emperor's fall in "Coming.")
I'd rather not say anything at all about "Gethsemane," because a large part of the plot turns on something you need to discover mid-viewing, and anything I might say would only detract from it. It's a lovely, sad, very moving story; it's kind of my Twilight Zone story in the B5 universe, with some very strong emotional twists as we go along. It's not the kind of story I get to do within the B5 structure very often, and I'm extremely pleased with this one (and Adam Nimoy did a *bang-up* job directing it; he thinks it may be his best work ever).
We're now shooting episode #7, "Exogenesis." So far, to give my own reactions to the year 3 episodes so far:
"Matters of Honor," somewhat of a continuation of the year two season ender, picking up the pieces, with some great action pieces, mainly a fair amount of fun, which is necessary given what precedes it..."Convictions," a moody, atmospheric, driving piece, stylistically very different for us, with some hysterically funny scenes juxtaposed against some deadly serious and gritty drama..."A Day in the Strife," a fair number of threads, a day in the life episode with everything that can go wrong going wrong, some elements of humor but mainly a straight-ahead kind of episode..."Voices of Authority," you'll see some of our characters doing stuff they've never done before, and we get into the whole question of the First Ones, also fairly straightfoward in storytelling and direction..."Passing Through Gethsemane," which again is just an utter knockout episode, which with "Convictions" comes close to being a perfect episode..."Dust to Dust," haven't seen the director's cut yet, but the dailies looked great...and "Exogenesis," which we just started filming this week, is probably our most "ordinary" story of the batch, though it puts a new spin on several traditional story elements.
On just about every level, I'd say that the year three episodes are an improvement on the year two episodes, and we've got a lot more this season that should be equal to or better than "Coming" and the other top three mentioned earlier, at least based on how they look pre-shooting..."Messages From Earth," and "Severed Dreams" are massive action/character set pieces on the scale of "The Long, Twilight Struggle"...only bigger, and more personal.
It's going to be great.
jms
*****
Talia v 1.0 would not have violated Ivanova's privacy during any kind of intimacy, as that would violate her profoundly; you can hold back, and Talia would have, and Ivanova would've sensed if she had tried it. The theory on telepaths making love is that they both willingly drop the blocks they normally keep in place.
jms
*****
A non-telepath can learn certain tricks to make it harder to break through, albeit briefly, so the reaction was sufficiently ambiguous and the event sufficiently brief that it wouldn't raise too many concerns. Which is why Sheridan dived in when he did; if she'd continue to block much longer, just instinctively, it would've revealed her latent potential. It was his distracting Ivanova that in a sense helped Lyta break through.
jms
*****
The most difficult part on one level is probably the writing, because that's the one time I'm up on the high-wire entirely by myself; in every other aspect of the show, you've got other people, costume designers, EFX people, others who can keep you from falling. Behind the keyboard, if you screw up, you've got no one to catch you.
On another level, the most physically difficult is the editing process, where we go over each episode frame by frame and edit it to within an inch of its life. It's a very detailed and wearing process.
We definitely plan to do more with Lennier next season.
jms
******
Thank you. The episodes should make you wonder about tomorrow, and think about the choices in our lives. If it has succeeded in that, then the effort is worthwhile. Thanks again.
jms
****
Remember, the *conscious* Talia did none of those things; she would never dream of scanning without permission. (And in Ivanova's case, remember that she said she knows *instantly* if she's being scanned. Note her strong reaction in "Eyes" when it happens.)
jms
****
What many folks forget is that Serling's story were as often about redemption as about damnation; about hope as often as about horror. That lesson is forgotten by many horror writers who claim him as influence.
The Serling influence, for me, is the strength of individual humans to endure much, sacrifice greatly, yet come out the other end of the struggle something nobler and stronger.
jms
*****
Actually, what Delenn said was, "...the Rangers *in this area* are under my direct command." So Sinclair's post as Ranger One remains back on Minbar.
And yes, Sinclair has apparently been described as the One...but you must ask...the one *what*?
Expect final answers to this one late this coming season.
jms
*****
The answer is real simple: it wasn't so much Kosh testing her for Kosh's sake, but for *her sake*. All this season, she's been whipsawed back and forth, she's had doubts, uncertainty, has been a weaker character. She needed to have some assurance, whether she knew it or not, that she was the right person, in the right place, at the right time. Look at all she's lost: her place in the Grey Council, her title, many Earthers hate her for her change, many of her own people feel the same...she says it in the beginning, she must be doingthe right thing for the right reasons, and her intents must be pure.
Because nowhere was Kosh consulted, or informed, or kept up to speed; her resolution came on her own, alone. If he needed the info, he would have been informed...but he didn't really need it...she did. And it's in Kosh's interests to start putting Delenn and Sheridan closer together.
jms
*****
Your reaction to the Vorlons is *exactly* right...this is now the process of greying up the Vorlons a bit. What kind of race would do this? What kind of race in particular would bring in *Sebastian* for chrissakes? There's something slightly left of center and definitely atilt about the Vorlons....
jms
*****
"Sheridan's pledges seem somewhat fatuous."
Boy, are *you* ever in for a surprise.
Of course, it's gonna cost him, though.....
jms
*****
Of course, that raises the inevitable question...is penance enough?
jms
*****
Can G'Kar grow to forgive? I don't think so...and yet in a way he must come to something more than rage, and other than forgiveness. There is an important step in his development yet to come. And he will have to go there by a very hard road.
jms
*****
Okay, here's one clue for any would-be Ripperologists out there.
In all the long story of Jack, when he was out doing his nightly work, only one person, a woman, wrote an actual letter, published in the London Times, offering an *explanation* for the Ripper's work, arguing that he was trying to send a message, that maybe people should listen to that message. It was as close as anyone's ever come to an actual *defense* of what he was doing.
Note the woman's name, and who her husband was...a man who was twice interviewed by Scotland Yard, and interviewed by many Church officials, the transcripts of which have been *sealed* by the Church ever since, at the request of the family...a person who was the last man to see at least one of the victims alive...and who was a direct blood relative of the man who was living with the final victim (who was killed indoors, leading to the speculation that she knew her assailant)...who suffered a breakdown just before the murders began, was obsessed with cleaning up the Whitechapel area, and after whose sudden, hasty transfer, the murders stopped...and whose profession is tied *directly* to the only thing the Ripper was overheard to say to one of his victims.
jms
*****
I think that, in the long run, the vorlons and the shadows will answer the questions Who are you and What do you want...in that that's kind of what they *are*, if that makes any sense.
Well, it will. Eventually.
Funny thing is, how much as you note the show corresponds to some of the things Mira's been through...some of it intentional, knowing that if I dig into this area, it'll come out of her with the ring of truth...some of it quite unintentional. When I finished writing "Severed Dreams," and the actors got it, Mira's first words to me were, "So...how long DID you live in Yugoslavia?" The parallel wasn't intentional...but it fit.
jms
*****
The pain is necessary because it's easy to consider laying down one's life intellectually; when the pain and the agony bring it home, it's no longer as easy.
And there *is* no correct answer to "Who are you?" The only real answer is no answer, because as soon as you apply someone's term for it, you have limited yourself, defined yourself in someone else's terms.
Doing things in a refined, gentle, intellectual manner is the sort of thing Delenn's used to, she can handle that easily...the goal of Sebastian was to try and *break* her. That's not intended to be done gently. You don't break someone over a cup of tea discussing philosophical concepts and the nature of personal identity. It's also not terribly dramatic to watch.
Because of her position, rank and authority, she expected to be treated a certain way...which was why it was important to treat her just the opposite. It's easy to put oneself into a grand prophecy, to assume one has a destiny...to pay the price for that is something else again. Anyone can do the former; very few can ever do the latter.
jms
*****
This week the North American market sees a repeat of "In the Shadow of
Z'ha'dum," which features a surprising display of spine by Vir Cotto in
the opening teaser. Vir's behavior in that episode lept to my mind
recently when I came across two passages in Tolkien's *The Fellowship of
the Ring*, the first volume of his *Lord of the Rings* trilogy:
'But where shall I find courage?' asked Frodo. 'That
is what I shall chiefly need.'
'Courage is found in unlikely places,' said Gildor.
* * *
There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is
true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit,
waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow.
Perhaps the awakening of courage in Frodo, Samwise, Meriadoc, and
Peregrin will have a *B5* counterpart in Vir's growth. Time will tell.
Of course, there is a small cottage industry on this group devoted to
noting apparent links between *Babylon 5* and *The Lord of the Rings*.
Without falling into the trap of assuming a one-to-one correspondence
between the works (remember, *B5* is not *LotR* "with the serial numbers
filed off"), there are resonances that demonstrate JMS's acknowledged
admiration for the work. There have been repeated notices of the
following affinities:
Gandalf's "Expect me when you see me" (cf. G'Kar in "Chrysalis")
The Company of the Ring consisting of Nine Walkers (cf. Valen's
assembling the first Nine)
Gildor's "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are
subtle and quick to anger" (cf. Elric in "The Geometry of
Shadows")
The presence of wide-roaming Rangers in both Middle Earth and the
B5 galaxy
While browsing in my favorite used-book store last month, I came upon a
hardcover boxed set of *The Lord of the Rings* in pristine condition.
Taking it as a sign of one way to get through The Long Wait, I bought
the set on the spot and began to treat myself to a re-reading of
Tolkien's epic. (What a joy! After all these years, it continues to
thrill, all the way to those final paragraphs at the ends of Appendices
A and B, which, for all their simplicity, still rip me up when I read
them.) In addition to the two quotations cited above that helped me get
a better fix on Vir's character, here are a few other resonances I noted
along the way:
*LotR* opens with Bilbo's "eleventy-first" birthday; however,
hobbits count in base ten, unlike the Minbari, who count in
base eleven
Gandalf, early on in the story, says of Gollum, "My heart tells me
that he has some part to play yet;" later, on the Road to
Rivendell, Glorfindel declares, "my heart warns me that the
pursuit is now swift behind us;" and much later Gandalf says,
"Yet my heart guessed that Frodo and Gollum would meet before
the end" (cf. Delenn's declaration that her heart tells her
she must remain on Babylon 5 rather than become Leader in
"Babylon Squared")
One epithet of the traitorous Saruman is the White Hand, and one
epithet of Sauron is the Black Hand (cf. the abundant "hand"
imagery in *B5*)
Gandalf, on his death and rebirth after defeating the Ballrog, says,
"I have passed through fire and deep water" (cf. Delenn quoting
Valen in "The Parliament of Dreams" and warning Lennier of the
danger of associating with her in "All Alone in the Night")
I can't help but wonder how much JMS was struck by Gandalf's poem about
Strider/Aragorn in the letter that Butterbur delivered to Frodo:
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
As we contemplate the mortality of characters in a series conceived by
JMS, we might bear this exchange between Frodo and Sam in mind:
'And that's the way of a real tale. Take any one that you're fond
of. You may know, or guess, what kind of a tale it is, happy-
ending or sad-ending, but the people in it don't know. And you
don't want them to.'
'No, sir, of course not. Beren now, he never though he was
going to get that Silmaril from the Iron Crown in Thangorodrim,
and yet he did, and that was a worse place and a blacker danger
than ours. But that's a long tale, of course, and goes on past
the happiness and into grief and beyond it--and the Silmaril went
on and came to earendil. And why, sir, I never thought of that
before! We've got--you've got some of the light of it in that
star-glass that the lady gave you! Why, to think of it, we're
in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales
never end?'
'No, they never end as tales,' said Frodo. 'But the people
in them come, and go when their part's ended. Our part will end
later--or sooner.'
And as Frodo, preparing to depart for the Grey Havens, explains to Sam,
'I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for
me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some
one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.'
****
In article <3vovuv$3lh@gate2.internet-eireann.ie>
deryck@internet-eireann.ie "Lestat" writes:
[Comments on what a great and moving episode TLTS was]
Agreed. It was, in parts, almost too painful to keep watching. Around
3/4 of the way through I found myself thinking of the line from LOTR :
'You and I, Sam, are still stuck in the worst places of the story, and it
is all too likely that some will say at this point: "Shut the book now,
dad; we don't want to read any more." '
Very well done, Mr Straczynski.
******
Exactly. You'll note when that look comes over Sebastian's face; he has asked her, "And what if the world is right and Delenn is wrong? Have you ever considered that?"
"Yes," she says, "sometimes."
Which was not the answer he expected. Not the answer of a fanatic, a true believer. It's the answer of a flawed person, who recognizes those flaws and is willing to admit them. Who isn't always certain. Which is something he could never do. He's always sure he's right. She gave the answer he probably never could have. And so it's *he* who averts his eyes this time.
jms
****
(new stuff added 9/21/96)
******
gwhite@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) wrote:
> What's the point of all this? Well... I was wondering what would make the
>"perfect" science fiction (far future, space setting) show?
>
> Should it be set on a ship? A space station? Or many different places
>(i.e. B5)? How many characters? Filled with space battles? Lot's and
>lot's of alien races? Exploration? War? All of the above?
> And for goodness sake, give us three good characters. Three INTERESTING
>characters that we want to watch. Not sterotypes, but fully fleshed out
>REALISTIC characters. Spend most of your time following them around,
>learning about them, getting to know them.
I would put it on a ship. But not a military ship ala ST.
I would have a ship that is owned by a company or some
such organization. The mission of the ship depends on
what they are assigned to do or what jobs they choose to
take. But it is a city-ship, filled with shops such as
you might see on DS9 or B5. This is because selling this
commercial space helps pay for the ship's expenses. With
a setting like that, you can have battles, wars, exploration,
aliens, a new world every week while still having adventures
in you're own "city" whenever you want. It may not be the
perfect science fiction show, but it has tremendous
versatility.
As to three main characters, its tempting to fall back on
captain/ first officer/ doctor, but there might be several
possibilities. The captain would probably need to be one
of them as he would be prominent in any ship-to-ship
situation. After that, you would have to pick and choose.
I can see where the security chief would be very important,
but so would a doctor. A businessman who oversees the
civilian aspects of the ship would probably be a good idea.
There are so many possible characters you'd just have to
pick three and be done with it.
*****
B5 is alive (yes, baby!!)
Several have stated pretty clearly their belief that Babylon5 is in
terminal condition. Its ratings stink. The dialogue remains purple and the
acting, frigid. I humbly disagree with the prognosis-- not on the basis
that "B5 is perfect" or that "ST sucks" or that "JMS rules."
On the contrary, B5's dialogue tends to be melodramatic, bordering on
campy at times. Sheridan's speech patterns are consistently histrionic and
patronizing. The stories are often riddled with inconsistencies and the
acting can be stilted, subdued and, ye s, mediocre. Beyond that, the more
momentous elements of the arc were put off too far toward the end of the
current season, diminishing the sense of great portent and anxiety
suggested at the end of the last season. Many of the earlier episodes were
lame cannon fodder.
The important thing is this: at its best, B5 consistently exhibits an
attention to detail and a respect for the tragic elements of life that
ST,for all of its improvements over the last season, too often fails to
represent. I suspect B5, like TOS before i t, will not only survive but
transcend its shortcomings and thrive in spite of them. Here's why...
At its best, B5 represents an uncertainty about how much worse things will
get rather than a comfortable belief in things eventually returning to
normal over smiles, quiet laughs and hot cocoa after the battle's over.
It's about slowly wading through the thick muck of ugly tensions instead
of backslaps and handshakes between the warring parties when an individual
episode comes to an end. It's something beyond antiseptic portrayals of
main characters visibly confident that they'll survive the season no mat
ter what happens.
B5 is not about
two-ships-passing-in-the-night-firing-slow-intermittent-glorified-cannonballs-at-one-another.
Its about several swarms of metallic worker bees degenerating from fixed
formations into chaotic interactions along three dimensions.
B5 is a relentless barrage of painful hesitations, difficult
judgements,terrible miscalculations, aborted detentes, paralyzing fears
and grudging resignation to the demands of necessity. It's a man biting
his lower lip as he pulls the trigger.
B5 is a long, drawn out camera pan over a landscape of battered carcasses
at the end of an undesired firefight; B5 is a confrontation between an
organized conspiracy of insecurity and a disorganized, insecure conspiracy
of competing interests; B5 is a cou ncil leader whose gesture of greeting
is welcomed with weapons fire; B5 is a dying emperor and a targeted
president entertaining wild and pretentious ambitions of a peace neither
will survive; B5 is a command staff in command of very little, anxious,
conf used, bewildered, in mild disarray; B5 is a head of security unable
to protect himself; B5 is a medical officer suffering from an illness he
cannot treat; B5 is an ambassador and a people wildly chasing vague hopes
of an elusive grandeur to will fill the voids of moral decay; B5 is an
ambassador whose efforts at strengthening the ties that bind two species
are rewarded with the scorn of both; B5 is a war-hardened diplomat-soldier
cowering like a baby against the wall of a hallway, tears in his eyes,
fragile hopes betrayed, disheveled, demoralized...angry; B5 is a
submissive, hesitant and otherwise insignificant subordinate with a rare
courage to vainly declare the unspoken, mitigate the irreprable, and speak
to the face of an enemy the words "I'm sorry."
B5 is about the death of important characters; it's about the lingering
threat of impending death hovering over *all* of the main characters
*all*of the time; it's about people succumbing to petty selfishness; its
about consequences, repercussions, enduri ng tensions, irony,things going
bad just when characters thought they couldn't get any worse. It's about
quasi-protagonists who, more often than not, act as recalcitrant puppets
reluctantly dancing to the tune of forces beyond their control. It's about
the frayed-yet-sturdy conviction of an individual where institutions have
failed. It's about the universe as you once knew it going straight to
hell.
Its about the primacy of fear, prejudice and self-interest over
last-ditch, heartfelt appeals to reason, open-mindedness and sacrifice for
the greater good. Its the loud, united thunderclap of euphoria celebrating
a signed treaty contrasted with the quiet , lonely sobs signalling the
wake of its failure. Its about dealing with life as it is, not life as we
wish it could be or life as we may have once envisioned it. B5 is about
severed dreams-- the death of grandiose visions-- and the effort to adjust
and b uild new ones. B5 is about the turmoil of the human condition and
the struggle to transcend it- about a long twilight struggle against the
lesser angels of our nature.
Make no mistake. B5 is no "line drawn against the darkness;" it is no"line
in the sand" drawn against some dark and nefarious nemesis, some
well-defined and unabashedly evil enemy, some clear, present and external
danger.
B5 is a near-hopeless holding action against the bland and indifferent
avalanche of inevitability. B5 won't die. Babylonians, armed with weapons
of telecommunication that TOS viewers and Roddenberry himself could have
only dreamed of, simply wont let that happen. Any possibility of
cancellation would engender a viewer movement for reinstatement unseen in
the world of television since...say...the 1960s when the first ST series
was experiencing some of the same travails. B5's strength is beyond
numbers, bey ond ratings, beyond pragmatic and jaundiced assessments of
its commercial viability.
It's bigger than you. It's bigger than all of us. Frankly, it's bigger
than JMS, himself.
This is about an immense yearning (however inchoate) heretofore untapped,
for a serious, organic, well-integrated, meaningful, realistic portrayal
of the struggle of life with sci-fi as the metaphor, vehicle and medium.
This is about the exploration of ar chetypes that have helped us to define
the human condition. This is about a sci-fi novel with moving pictures.
It's a deliberate focus on the painful duality of human nature and the
incredible darkness underlying it.
It is not about a mere agglomeration of television episodes or some
line-item on a ratings list or about a mere collection of aliases on an
internet newsgroup or about some staff stationed in Hollywood.This is a
leviathan, immensely bigger than the sum of its parts.
My fellow Lurkers, this...thing...is alive.
Perry D.
Yeeeeee-haaaaah!
____
"The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed."
Commander Ivanova, Babylon5
____
"Don't give up so quickly. You simply haven't learned to laugh
yet...and you'll never learn just by trying. But you will learn, I
promise you. If you live among us long enough, one day you will see
how funny we are-- and you will laugh."
(Jubal Hernshaw --Stranger in a Strange Land)
*****
"Severed Dreams had a line that was better than Ivanava's sex scene. Wow,
do these women get lines!"
Can't help it. I've always been vastly enamoured of strong, sharp, funny,
independent and strong-willed women. (Well, me and 99% of the rest of the
male population, most of them just won't admit it.)
I love it when anyone -- male or female -- comes up with a killer line.
Claudia and I are always going at it, each trying to top the other...and
I've found out the hard way that you don't challenge her on the theory
that she'll back down. Won't happen. Ivanova's just the same. Mira is
also dedicated, fierce in her convictions, extremely bright and worldly.
So why should their characters be any less than the women themselves?
jms
*****
jmsatb5@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>You picked up on exactly the themes that are present in the show, with
>some more to come shortly. Personal sacrifice for a cause -- perhaps a
>good cause, perhaps not, depending on how wisely we make our decisions --
>is probably the dominant theme at this point in the story.
"But then the worth of a man can only be gauged by his readiness to
sacrifice his life for his convictions."
Major-General Henning von Tresckow (anti-Nazi resistor) shortly before
committing suicide following the failure of the coup of 20th July
1944.
Jeannette
_______________________________________________________________
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
Nietzsche
*****
As someone who has lurked on the various B5 newsgroups for over a year
now, I have gotten to know JMS through his posts. After reading his
responses to the same inquiries time and time again, I can feel a small
part of his pain. I'm sure many of you out there can also sympathize.
So, just as a lark, please join with me as we review the...
Top 10 comments that really spin JMS up:
10.What is an arc?
9.B5 is just a retelling of Lord of the Rings in space.
8.B5 is the only show to portray religion positively on T.V.
7.B5 has been cancelled due to poor/dropping ratings!
6.Where are all the 'arc' episodes? Nothing's happening!
5.ATTN JMS: are you still a racist/a sexist/beating your wife?
4.As expected, JMS promised lots of stuff would happen but didn't deliver
3.B5 is a cheap attempt by Warner Bros. to rip off ST:DS9
2.JMS chaned the arc and replaced Sinclair due to pressure from WB
... and the Number One comment to really spin JMS up is:
1.So, a writer outlines the plot and the actors make up the words, right?
Leland J. Tankersley | "When you're right 90% of the
Trident Systems Incorporated <*> time, you can afford to
URL: http://tridsys.com/~leland | disregard the remaining 3%."
*****
methinks JMS has finally straczynskied himself. :-)
straczynskied - verb (past tense). To be inspired towards
simultaneous and profound curiosity, anticipation, awe, dread, and
somber reflection through the skillful use of misdirection,
foreshadowing, mental torture, and other literary devices leading
to disturbed sleep, frightening nightmares, blurred reality,
hallucinations, compulsive behavior and general obsession.
*****
The curious thing...the interesting thing...is that in just about
everything I've ever written, yes, I generally follow where I want to go,
end up where I want to end up, but once I get *into* it, once the
characters come alive on the page, I inevitably find better ways of doing
things, stronger and more muscular paths to the story, more interesting
side roads.
Also, this original story was worked out in 1986/87; that's nearly ten
years ago. In those ten years, I've become -- or like to think I've
become -- a better writer, learned more, written more, picked up some new
tools I didn't have then. So you have a situation where the writer in
1996 looks at the writer in 1986 and says, "No, listen...there's a better
way. Yes, we'll still get to Disneyland on time, you'll still have plenty
of time to ride the haunted mansion...but if we go *this* way, we can stop
off and also see Knotts Berry Farm, and the Winchester Mystery Mansion,
and maybe even Hearst Castle on the way."
The destination is still the same..but I've found a *lot* more interesting
ways of getting there. Which, after all, is what an outline is for: a
safe home base that allows you to wander off, knowing that you can always
return to it if you get lost.
jms
*****
"So, to sum up, has it been hard making these changes after you and all of
the fans have gotten to know them? Or is it simply a matter of:
"Well...it's their time...?"
It's both, kinda. In the case of one character, who's been with us a long
time, and who...shall we say delicately, is en route to becoming an
ex-character by the end of this season...it was hard knowing the actor,
because the actor said, "Was there something I did wrong?" To which you
can only answer truthfully and say no, not at all, just the opposite...you
did a GREAT job, that's why we're offing you. If you'd been just
mediocre, nobody'd CARE."
In another case, also later this season, it was *very* difficult for me
personally to do it, very emotional...and I wouldn't probably have done it
at all if the character hadn't basically grabbed me by the lapels and
dragged me kicking and screaming to that point of the story and said,
"Look, this is right, you know it, I know it, now DO it." So I did. (And
the cast and crew were equally stunned. Of everything that's been done on
the show to date, THAT one thing got the biggest reaction; nobody'd eat
across from me for two days at lunch after that.)
Bottom line...you've got to go where the story leads you. That *has* to
be your first and foremost obligation. If it's anything else -- catering
to the audience's expectations, or your own preferences -- rather than
doing what the cold logic of the story *demands* you to do...you're
finished.
jms
*****
[Profanity warning: JMS is not shy about using profanity in his
talks, and I don't want to edit the quotes because I wouldn't presume
to change his words. Escape now if you're easily offended.]
[Comments in square brackets are my own.]
[Spoilers have been sorted to the end. They are preceded by spoiler
space and sorted in order to be aired. Spoilers for S1 "The Quality
of Mercy", S2 "There All the Honor Lies", S3 "Ceremonies of Light and
Dark", "Interludes and Examinations", "Walkabout", "Grey 17 is Missing",
"Shadow Dancing", and unspecified late 3rd season.]
[other parts available at http://eek.cwru.edu/~surak/Babylon5/marcon.html ]
Saturday, May 4, 1996, noon
An Hour with J. Michael Straczynski
The room was bigger than the ones scheduled for Richard Biggs and JMS
on Friday, but there were still people standing packed in the aisles
and the back of the room. After about 5 minutes, they finally found
a microphone, because the room was just large enough that people in
the back couldn't hear. JMS had a few things to say about the room.
Every time he goes to a con, they never believe he needs a bigger
room. This was no exception. He told the concom, "I tell you, we
need a bigger room, you guys." The concom said, "No, this will be
fine, there are lots of other panels going on." JMS said, "You don't
understand. My people are coming. Let my people sit."
He finally got started, but commented that this was a really tough
crowd, with the microphone troubles and all. "I know it's Ohio, but
give me a break!" (The audience was unamused. He ragged on Ohio
a lot over the weekend.)
"I can't tell you how wonderful it is to see a room full of faces of
people as perverse as we are. Look around, this is an audience of
like-minded people."
The closest they've ever come to being late on delivering an episode
was on "Severed Dreams" a few weeks ago. The day of the satellite
uplink, Warner Brothers was going, "Guys, guys, we're running out of
time." They delivered two hours before the satellite uplink.
JMS wanted to bring "War Without End, part 1" to the convention, but
they were still working on the audio mix, so it wasn't ready.
One of the big reasons they are able to produce Babylon 5 on about half
the budget of an average Star Trek episode is because everything is
planned out well in advance. Scripts are finished about 4 weeks before
filming to give everyone time to prepare costumes, sets, casting, etc.
and *do it well*. They also almost never go overtime on their filming
schedule. They film 12 hour days, and in 3 years they've only gone
seriously overtime 9 days. Because scripts are ready so far in advance,
JMS is working on about 9 episodes at once. He's outlining one, writing
the next, doing preproduction (casting, sets, etc.) on a third, filming
the fourth, CGI on the fifth, audio mixing on the sixth, and so on.
"You have to be good at multitasking." Some in the back shouted, "What
about OS/2?" JMS replied, "That's Warp. Sorry, we don't warp in this
show!" Then he smiled and said, "I'm proud of that line."
Someone asked how he works with other writers to make sure that the
stories are consistent with the arc. He said he has the story planned
out well in advance. At the beginning of each season, he sits down
and outlines everything that needs to happen that season, and all the
stories for the season, and makes synopses of what needs to happen for
the arc. If it's an arc-light episode, the synopsis may be only a
few pages, and if it's arc-heavy it may be 10-12 pages. Then he gives
that to the writer, who goes off and writes a full outline and comes
back and JMS goes over it, then the writer goes off and writes a 1st
draft, and they go back and forth to keep it consistent with the story.
So how did he end up writing all 22 episodes this season? Well, about
2/3 of the way through the season, someone pointed out that no one
writer had ever written an entire full season of a television show.
"Well, that was it. I was screwed. I had to do it at that point."
An audience member commented that she was very happy that the female
characters aren't just being treated stereotypically, though I didn't
note which episode she was referring to. For example, the stereotypical
thing would be to have Ivanova kidnapped and tortured by the Shadows.
JMS replied, "A regular character needn't be a victim." Someone else
asked, "So are we going to see Ivanova kidnap and torture a Shadow?"
This brought cheers and thunderous applause from the audience.
JMS: "If you'd come to staff meetings, you'd know these things."
JMS asked how many folks are on the net. <most of the audience raised
their hand, though I spotted one or two who didn't> "It's like
body snatchers or something."
"Did you know there's a funeral directors' convention going on here?
I had wanted to get some extra sleep this weekend now that we're done
filming, but I was woken up at 6am by people from the other convention
talking very loudly in the next room, and of course the walls are
paper-thin, so I could hear everything they were saying. And they're
over there saying, `Did you know there's some weird science fiction
convention going on here this weekend? They're really creepy, they
all come dressed as their favorite characters.' I wanted to scream,
`You necropheliac corpse-banging bastard! At least they're alive!'
I have no life."
A woman stood up and told JMS that she wanted to ask him a question
she once asked Gene Roddenberry at a convention. JMS joked, "What's
Majel Barrett like to live with? I don't know." The woman asked,
"What is your dream? What do you want to be remembered for when you
die? What do you want them to put on your tombstone?" JMS replied,
"I'm only 41. I don't know." He thought about it for a minute and
said, "`He told good stories.' That's what I'd want on my tombstone,
what I want them to remember me for." [Joe, if Babylon 5 is any
indication, you most certainly will be remembered for that.]
JMS briefly talked about the fan club that's starting up (signup info
is on the Lurker's Guide if you haven't got it already). The club
has only been publicized over the Internet, and they already have
about 5000 members. They're going to have lots of nifty stuff,
including a web site done by the same guys doing the show, where
each member will have mail, and personal quarters on the station that
they can customize, and station tours and other cool stuff. They
are planning on advertising in print media soon.
Someone asked about Harlan Ellison. Harlan is doing much better,
went home from the hospital just a few days after his surgery and
is already writing again. "His job is to perch on my shoulder like
the devlish elf he is and scream in my ear to avoid the pitfalls of
his previous shows. He is a free-roaming agent of chaos."
There was a kid dressed in a Ranger costume who asked a question.
JMS spoke about responsibility and consequences. The characters on
his show have to take responsibility for their actions, and their
actions do have consequences. Small incidents, or a revelation or
insight, lead to big changes, revolution. "You do have the power to
change things."
Someone asked why we don't see any little kids in Downbelow. JMS
said B5 isn't the sort of place you bring kids. The person pointed
out that people living in Downbelow should be having babies just
like everyone else does. JMS mumbled something about there not
having been enough time since the station went online, then turned
to the side and said in a stage whisper, "Stupid arrogant bastard."
Every once in a while, JMS throws something completely outrageous
into a script. For example, in "The Quality of Mercy", Londo cheats
at cards using a long tentacle that turns out to be part of his
genitalia. JMS said, "Warners and I have an understanding--every
once in a while something happens that they don't want to know about,
so I pretend it never happened." :) This didn't sit too well with
Larry DiTillio, who was story editor at the time. Larry said to JMS,
"You tell me I can't do camp in my scripts, then you write one with
a guy picking up cards with his dick?" JMS replied, "Write what you
know." Larry wouldn't talk to him for days after that.
JMS told the story about Peter David and the teddy bear, which has
escalated since last I heard it. JMS hates cute things. And Peter
David knows this. Now you have to realize, Peter David is a teddy
bear incarnate, according to JMS. So Peter sends JMS this cute
teddy bear with "Bear-ba-lon 5" on the back and the initials J. S.
for Joe Straczynski on the front. JMS calls Peter. "You fucked with
me." Peter replies very enthusiastically, "Yeah, ain't it great?"
JMS says, "You don't understand, I have to get even with you." Peter
begins to sound worried. "What are you going to do?" JMS added a
few scenes to the next Peter David script that came through, which was
"There All the Honor Lies" in the 2nd season. That was the one with
the Babylon 5 merchandising, and one of the items in the store is a
teddy bear with the initials J. S. for John Sheridan. Sheridan gets
hold of the bear and spaces it. JMS' favorite part of the whole thing
was watching the dailies when they filmed the episode. Out in space,
Keffer finds the teddy bear and it slams into his windshield, which is
a separate element in the editing and has to be filmed separately
against a blue screen. So when the dailies came in, there were shots
against a blue screen of the teddy bear spinning around with a pole
stuck up its ass, being slammed into a piece of plexiglass over and over
again. JMS loved it. JMS grinned and said, "We're a sick bunch!"
Well, that wasn't the end of it. Peter David called JMS after seeing
this and said, "Well, you declared war." Peter David now has his own
show called "Space Cases". And in one of the episodes, what did they
find floating in space but a teddy bear? Of course, one of the lines
on the show was, "What kind of monster would space a teddy bear?" But
this wasn't an ordinary bear. It was planted there in space by an
evil race called the Straczyn, who want to conquer the galaxy but don't
have the budget. And it was carrying all sorts of viruses and other
evil nasty stuff. When JMS saw this, he sent a message to Peter--
"My serve!" JMS says he has a revenge planned that is "so wonderful
I can't tell you because it would ruin the surprise. You will hear
about it, it's that big, you can't miss it." [Now I'm curious.]
A woman, dressed in a replica of the new uniforms introduced in
"Ceremonies of Light and Dark", stood up to ask a question. When JMS
saw the uniform, he remarked, "I recognize that uniform--that was fast."
He spoke briefly about "Interludes and Examinations", the episode he
brought to show on Sunday. That's the episode in which "something
happens which I had not planned... and if I can surprise me, I can
surprise you. That's my job." [I saw the episode on Sunday, and
I'm not exactly sure what the surprise was. Any guesses?]
He also spoke a bit about upcoming episodes.
In "Grey 17 is Missing", they literally find that an entire level of
Grey sector is gone. This is a Garibaldi story.
There is a big Marcus/Delenn story coming up.
"Interludes and Examinations" is a Franklin story.
In "Walkabout", Pat Tallman returns to test the possible weapon against
the Shadows that we learned about in "Ship of Tears".
"Shadow Dancing" will deal with the problem we are going to hear
about in "Interludes".
He confirmed that a couple of characters get scragged before the end
of the season. One of the actors whose character was killed came to
JMS and asked, "Did I do something wrong?" "No, you were great. If
you were rotten, no one would care if you lived or died. You were
great, so I had to kill you." Someone asked who was going to die.
"God I wish I could tell you! But half of me would kill me, and the
other half wouldn't move to stop me."
--
Rachel M. Thurston | rmt7@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve University
"So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of
the universe." --Marcus to Franklin, B5 "A Late Delivery from Avalon"
<*> Watching Babylon 5 is like being nibbled to death by cats. <*>
*****
Wow, talk about lots of questions....
1/ Going in to a new episode how do you decide what the B plot will be? Do
you write the B plot concurrent with the A? (The two plots often seem to
contain thematic counterpoint.)
In breaking out the season in advance, I have a selection of arc stories
and non arc stories worked out. (In his Starlog interview, Larry
DiTillio, prior story editor on the show, mentions going through the lists
of stories I make up each season.) In looking them over, it's easy to
know which are A stories and which are B stories by the relative size of
the story and how much time would be required to tell it. A lot of time =
A story, less = B story. If a story is strong enough that it doesn't need
a B story, it's left alone. If, on the other hand, it's a bit slim, or if
I want to do more of a slice-of-life episode, then I pull in a B story.
Once I've decieded this, I look for a B story that's an interesting
counterpoint to the A story; if A is very dark, B tends to be lighter.
Sometimes I try and come up with a dramatic counterpoint or ironic or
thematically similar sub-story.
Once this is done, I write both at the same time, much as you see it,
right through, going from one to the other, not writing them separately.
I need to do this to be able to feel the flow of the story, where the
segues are, and to create counterpoint and tension. It needs a certain
kind of rhythm, and if you write them separately you won't get that.
2/ You say that you play out a scenario in your head before putting
fingers to keyboard. How much of an episode do you tend to picture before
writing anything?
Quite a lot of it, actually. Once I know the basic story, I cue the
"video" up in my head and start playing it over and over, gradually
becoming able to see the images more and more clearly, filling in the
blanks between scenes and the like. Once I know where all the pieces go,
I begin writing. (On some occasions, as a writing test, I'll launch in
with just a general sense of where I want to go and charge through it for
the adrenalin rush...sort of like an acrobat performing without a net.
This works particularly well when I know the episode is going to contain
surprises, or should have a sense of immediacy that sometimes can diminish
if you think about it too much in advance.)
3/ Is it purely experience that allows you to develop a script that will
fit within the time frame of each episode?
Yeah, it's just doing it. I almost never look at the page count as I
write, it's just a matter of *feeling* it, knowing how much time is
passing, and when you should begin racing toward the climax. Sometimes I'm
a few pages over, but usually I can nail it spot on.
4/ What percentage of time - roughly - is spent in the head, writing the
script itself and revising afterwards?
Hard to say. I have them on a back burner as I'm doing other stuff,
waiting to go on script #whatever. Even though I'm not consciously
working on them, I know that subconsciously it's bubbling away. Once I
start actually typing, I can finish a script in anywhere from 3-4 days (if
I'm in white heat over the story, in which case my door is locked and
nobody DARES bother me) to 10 days. Revisions take only a few days,
mainly for production purposes.
5/ When writing a script you must be roughly aware of where the ad breaks
will be; do you initially ignore these or do you write to fit them?
No, you need to write to the act breaks so that you end each act on a
hook; again you need to have that sense of how the acts flow at top and
bottom.
6/ Is there a writer's term for the coda that completes each episode?
It's called a tag.
jms
*****
Mainly, I think I was just trying to avoid it...put it off as long as
possible...but the character knew, even more than I did, that this was the
right time to do this. It's a very hard thing to do this to a character;
the only way to get that kind of emotion into a script is to feel it
yourself as you're writing it, and that's a painful thing to do. So I was
avoiding it. But he outfoxed me...as usual.
That's Vorlons for you.
jms
******
"1) Assuming the present is the time period during which we watch Babylon
5 and the period we saw at the beginning of the WWE episode, does the
possible fall of B5 (if the mission fails) take place in the past or the
future? We see Ivanova screaming in the mysterious transmission that
"they're killing us" and that the Captain is dead, so I assume this
indicates that the possible fall of B5 takes place in the future since
Sheridan is the only Captain (Sinclair was a Commander, non?). But we
also see Sinclair reliving his flashback with Gerabaldi from Season one in
which B5 falls, and he then seems to indicate that his mission is to
prevent such a catastrophe. Since Sinclair is there, with Gerabaldi, this
would seem to suggest that the fall of B5, if the mission fails, takes
place in the past in relation to the present with which we are all
familiar.(Breath) So, if the mission fails, when will B5 fall; past of
future??? Or perhaps put another way: Will B5 possibly fall under
Sheridan's command or Sinclair's? <-- God, that's complicated."
Nope. The scenes are all in the future. Garibaldi specifically
identifies the distress call as coming from 8 days in the future.
Sinclair's vision wasn't a flashback, but a flash forward; even the
blowing of B5 was identified by Lady Ladira as in the future. It's
*always* been placed in the future, though most of this was in the first
season, which hasn't been reshown. Also, in the first act, Garibaldi
again *specifically states* that when they went to B4, there was a glimpse
of the future and the fall of B5.
"2) Faced with the end, why would the bloodied Ivanova feel compelled to
deliver a play-by-play to a non-existant audience? Or even to one that is
there? I found that strange."
First she was trying to get help. Second, there should be some record of
what happened for those who would investigate. They would need to know,
just the way a signal operator sends out a distress call for as long as
possible as the ship sinks. SOP.
"4) About Delenn's slide show: It looks as though Minbari ships have
remained basically the same for the past 1000 years. I could not see one
change. Why is that?"
Because you weren't looking closely enough. The older Minbari ships are
much longer and tubular in design; you'll see them better in the second
half, but there's definitely a difference.
"5) The preview showed Gerabaldi giving 'em hell with a big gun. Why
wasn't that in the episode (I know, some scenes in previews don't show up
in the actual ep, but it seemed important)?"
Because we were seeing the sequence from Sinclair's point of view; he was
gone by the time Garibaldi began firing, so he wouldn't have seen it.
Story logic.
"7) Londo spoils us all by telling us Sheridan wins the war--suspense exit
stage left--unless the time line is somehow further altered, which would
go against the inevatability theme JMS seems to be playing."
Okay, everybody who thought I was going to have our heroes fight a war for
two whole years or so, and then *lose it*...a major dramatic
disappointment to say the least...raise your hands.
In any event...quite frankly, several of your "serious nitpicks" are
actually incorrect, and come from making assumptions or simply not paying
attention when someone says something clearly in dialogue, as Garibaldi
does, that the flash was of future events, and then IDs the signal as from
8 days ahead.
jms
*****
Hmm...that's a tough question, and one I've never gotten before. (And
those are hard to come by, lemme tell you.)
If I'd gone right into the series in 1986, what would've been different in
the writing and the show in general...hmmm.....
Given my notes of the time, I think it probably would've been more from
Sinclair's point of view. The characters would've likely been more
defined in terms of their relationship with Sinclair, as opposed to seeing
their lives out on their own, without that defining *context*. That's
probably the single biggest creative difference. I don't know if I
could've given it the depth of characterization or sub-plots that I feel I
can do now. Certainly, the time spent on Murder, She Wrote taught me a
*lot* about setting up clues, foreshadowing, construction, and playing
fair with an audience, experience I didn't have in 1986.
On the other side, you've got the reality that CGI wasn't available then,
and it'd all have to be done with models. It would've been *very*
difficult to do all we've done now with CGI, using models; I think you'd
have to cut way back on the scale of the thing. It's very doubtful we
could've done the Narn homeworld bombing from "Twilight," or the rescue in
"Fall." I'd've had to come up with some other way to do that.
Basically, I think the show would've still presented an arc, still
would've been ambitious for its time, but I don't think it would've been
*as good* as it is now. In a way, though the long wait was frustrating,
it put us in the right place at the right time to do this show the way it
needs to be done, both creatively and physically, from a production
standpoint.
On the other hand, one can probably make a good argument that if the show
were done in the year 1999 instead of 1996, with even 3 years more
advancement in CGI and EFX, and 3 more years of writing experience, it
might be even better then than now. Who knows? All I know for sure is
that the show being done now, is the show I want to do, the way I want to
do it, and I'm very comfortable with that.
jms
*****
To begin with, I *loved* both of these episodes. They felt like nothing
B5 has ever done before. I had the feeling that I was watching
something special unfold before my eyes. And on a character, excitement,
and emotional level, everything was just superb. The best work in those
areas on the series to date in fact. These two episodes are right up
there with the very best of B5.
First, Sinclair. Wow. I was far from one of Michael O'Hare's strongest
supporters. I always felt that he was an actor more suited for the stage
than for the small screen, but even in the first season, he had his
moments. Here, however, he was excellent. I think that mysterious
religious figure suits O'Hare far more than the commander role did, and he
gives a great performance. I've always thought that the character of
Sinclair was the best on the series, with the most potential, and he
realized it here. B5 had felt like his story back in the first
season, and it felt like it again here. Watching Sinclair accept his fate
with calm determination was a beautiful thing, and I felt happy and sad
for him simultaneously. Both of his goodbyes to Garibaldi were quite
moving. I know there's probably no way to bring him back, but he will be
missed.
The other significant event is Sheridan's flash-forward, and that also was
quite chilling and compelling. Boxleitner has really surprised me of
late, showing more range than I ever thought he had. His scene with
Delenn in the jail was both moving and frightening. Delenn's comment
about him "losing his innocence" combined with Londo's that Sheridan was
"back from the abyss" makes me wonder exactly what kind of quasi-death is
waiting for him at Z'ha'dum.
And, of course, we finally were graced with the context of Londo's final
moments from his dream, and it was worth the wait. I'm not sure that I
wanted to see it this soon, but, in a bizarre way, it was another "moment
of perfect beauty. I'm glad to see that Londo will receive redemption, by
not "killing the one who is already dead." (Though, that does bring up
the point that JMS has effectively told us for certain that Sheridan and
company win the war and that Londo gains a sort of salvation. I'm not
sure if I wanted to know that or not.)
I get the feeling that Delenn's flash-forward may happen soon. My guess
is that Anna's at the door and Delenn has a lot to answer for. We'll see.
Overall, dramatically, I thought the episodes were simply stellar. There
was an urgency about them, yet none of the characters suffered. A great
mix of epic and personal.
But...and there's always a but, I want to talk about the one area where I
think the episodes fail to deliver (and talk at length, I must warn you
(:), and that's in the details. I love time travel stories. The way I look
at it, there are basically two types of time travel stories. The first is
where nothing is set and people can journey back in time and muck with
events, producing alternate outcomes. This is the type of time travel used
in the _Back to the Future_ films.
The second type of story is where history is set, so that no matter what
is done by a time-traveler, nothing changes because whatever you try to do
has *already* been done. This is the type of time travel used in the
first _Terminator_ film. Nothing changed. History just played itself
out.
I find the second type of story *so* much more appealing, because it's so
much harder to do. And when I saw "Babylon Squared" a couple of years
back, it was obvious that this was the type of story JMS was going to do
with B4, and I was really excited. Things had been building to this
part of the story for quite a while, and even though we hadn't gotten to
the point where the characters went back and got the station, it had
already disappeared nonetheless when the series began. So history was
set, we just had to see it played out from all the angles.
Okay. Speculation time. I got the distinct impression that the exact
details that Joe had in mind when he was writing "Babylon Squared" changed
between the writing of that episode and the writing of this two-parter,
and that he had to go to great lengths to try and make it all work out.
The reason for this, I believe, involves the departure of Sinclair from
the show.
The first is this entire "alternate reality" thing where Ivanova and B5 go
up in smoke to the Shadows. I find it hard to believe that we had two
(three counting the voices that the Centauri woman heard in her head)
flash-forwards in the first season that were only meant to take place in a
possible future that is never shown. They were given too much weight in
context when we first saw them to just be tossed aside down the road. I
had the impression, watching the end of the two-parter, with Sinclair
revealed to be Valen, that this was originally intended to be, if not the
exact end, *close* to the end of the series. The circle closed. End at
the beginning as it were.
And (now I'm really guessing here), Joe decided to do this *now* instead
of later, and because Sinclair was featured in one of the flash-forwards,
and would now not be around then, the flash-forwards from "Babylon Squared"
and "Signs and Portents" had to be assigned to this possible future.
I think that if Sinclair had stayed on the series, these events would
have happened with Garibaldi and the station and *then* they would have
gone back and gotten B4. (Otherwise Sinclair would have been gone
mid-series, which seems unlikely.)
It just doesn't make any sense to me *why* there would be a possible future
or why they had to "restore" the future when it had already been done.
There was no doubt about it. "I went. It's as simple as that," Sinclair
says. Likewise, the White Star stopped the Shadows from destroying B4,
Sinclair took B4 back in time, became Valen and won the war. It's as
simple as that. To me, it felt like this was a forced explanation for the
flash-forwards. And it irked me, because everything else (in intent
anyway) was consistent with the "history is set" theory. This is further
supported by the fact that there isn't *one* mention of the possible
future or of "restoring" it in the second episode. Only in part I.
Now that I've seen Part II and saw that that aspect of the story *had*
been ignored, it doesn't bother me as much. What bothers me more is that
that there are far too many details in the two-parter that don't match up
with "Babylon Squared." Joe said when he wrote it that he had to plot out
these two episodes along with it, so that everything would be consistent.
It isn't.
And I think the reason it isn't is because Sheridan didn't (at
least not for certain, I would guess) exist yet when "Babylon
Squared" was written, and in trying to fit him into it, things got a bit
mucked up. Some of it, though, looks like flat-out errors.
To begin with, almost everything about Zathras and his capture seems
to be different. Major Cranston says in B^2, "One minute we're alone in
the conference room, the next, there's a flash, and there he is." Yet
here there's no flash, no conference room, just guards finding Zathras in
the cargo bay. Also, Cranston seemed to suspect that they had gone
through time in B^2 ("Then it's true."), but we no indication that they
have any idea here, or that they're experiencing time-jumps. (Also not
that Cranston tells his second to send a distress signal, but in B^2, he
sends it himself. Zathras says in B^2 that they need the station for
a "great war, terrible war," and that "Zathras warn, but no one listen."
Huh? How could Zathras have warned anyone about a war that took place
1000 years ago? And then in B^2, (and here's where there seems to be
major differences), when "The One" appears in the corridor, Zathras says,
"Yes. Much pain. Warned him, Zathras did. But willing to sacrifice
himself, for others. He stopped the time-taking, to let these escape
station." Sinclair: "You're saying he deliberately stopped Babylon 4 to
let the crew get off?" Zathras: "Uhh! Mmm!"
This is most definitely *not* what happens. It's an accident that sends
them forward and not because Sheridan (who is really Delenn, but I guess
Zathras wouldn't know that, as he says "he") "stops the time-taking." I
can't see how these statements are reconcilable with what actually happens
in WWE. (Also, Zathras says that he gave *his* stabilizer to "The One,"
but he gave him the repaired one in WWE. Where did his go, anyway?) And
I guess JMS realized that it all didn't fit, either in writing
the episodes or in editing them, because all the statements that Zathras
made in B^2 that are contradictory to what is happening in WWE are either
cut entirely or edited differently. (Note that all the dialogue from
Zathras about stopping the time-taking is removed.) It's obvious that
*something* was up here.
I have no idea whether or not "The One" was originally going to be three
people or not (though if Sinclair had stuck around I don't know who the
third would have been), but I have a *strong* suspicion that when JMS
wrote "Babylon Squared," it was only Sinclair in that blue suit. The only
events that both Sinclair (WWE) and Sinclair (B^2) see are the
shuttles leaving when he's telling Garibaldi to "watch your back." Yet he
tells Delenn, "It *all* happened, just the way I remembered it," as if he
had seen a lot more than just the shuttles leaving. And he's
not warning "them," he's warning "him." Was Sinclair originally going to
be trying to warn them about something else during his fade-ins?
The only other minor quibble is that Delenn doesn't put her hand on
Sinclair's shoulder when she tells him "They're waiting for us."
Yes, all of this can be explained by saying that Zathras was lying or that
history was just a little bit different this time out, but that feels like
a cheat to me, and takes *all* the fun out of watching B^2 and WWE
together. I was hoping for a complex tapestry that would all fit together
in perfect harmony, but that didn't seem to happen.
I do love the idea of Sinclair as Valen (something I guessed when it was
revealed in "Passing..." that Valen was a Minbari not born of Minbari),
and I think it would have made perfect symmetry to have Sinclair lead the
war against the Shadows both now and 1000 years ago. I have no problem at
all if the story has been changed somewhat, because I can see how JMS
could devise something even better.
In the end, though, I'm probably only one of few who are going to be
bothered by any of the inconsistencies. And I think that the episodes are
so strong that they easily overcome these annoyances.
I *hate* having to wait until the Fall for more. Ah well...
Grade: 10.0 (Just marvelous.)
*****
To JMS I would say:
"Wait a few years after B5 is finished and see what happens. You may
very well find that the builders, the teachers, and the creators of the
future include many who are only among those ranks because of what you
have written.
"Doing such work, especially teaching, requires enormous sacrifice.
Frequently, there is no return on this sacrifice in the person's own
lifetime; they do what they do because the alternative is worse yet.
The belief that they are creating a world better than their own is the
only reward they have. It is all that keeps them going, in many cases.
"Does any of this sound familiar to you?
"I know of people, minor contributors perhaps, whose spirits have been
borne up by B5. They're not even sure why, but I think it's because
you have acknowledged that a sacrifice is required, and that
reinforcement helps sometimes. So, as I say, don't be surprised if the
next Boon To Humankind comes from a B5 fan."
*****
"This statement above sounds a lot like Londo in "Signs and Portents".
This is about the fourth or fifth time, I'm sure there have been more,
where I've heard your characters voices welling up through your messages."
Yeah, that line kinda blurs sometimes...they're all somewhat different
pieces of myself, peeled off as necessary.
"You must be one deep, complex person to have all these different aspects
of yourself that you pull out and use for your characters."
Or deeply schizophrenic.
:I'm in awe, envious . . . and a little frightened."
You and me too, bunky....
Actually, a tad more seriously...we all have these aspects, it's just
being willing and/or stupid enough to do so in front of people, or when
writing. And by virtue of being Eastern European in my origins, I tend
toward the morose to *begin* with, so it's all downhill from there.
jms
*****
Well, I just watched Interludes and Examinations again last night, and I was
noticing Delenn's reactions during Sheridan's lamenting their lack of
victories over the Shadows and their ignorance about the Shadows' real
intentions. It seemed to me that Delenn's reactions were totally out of
synch with Sheridan's words, that she was, in fact, reacting to her own
inner turmoil.
And what is the source of the inner turmoil, you ask?
Why, it's the fact that she _knows_ the Shadows' motivations and is afraid
to reveal them for fear of losing some or all of her allies, possibly
including Sheridan himself. I can't guess the entirety of her inner debate
during Sheridan's soliloquy, but it looked like she had come to some
conclusion about what to say or do wrt the Shadows, hence her distant-
sounding response to Sheridan's lament.
Thoughts or insight?
Followup from JMS:
Won't quote the original message to avoid spoilers for others, but suffice
to say... DINGDINGDINGDING!
jms
******
Without giving anything spoilerish away....
When I wrote the script, I wanted there to be a snow globe not because of
any allusion to Citizen Kane, which really hadn't occured to me, but
because I knew I wanted something to smash, to shatter, to visually convey
the emotional content of something that just happened. A snow globe not
only breaks, shatters, it splashes...nicely visual.
When time came to prep that episode, the art department went around and
tried to find a good snowglobe. They brought back, I think, 3 different
ones we could use. Of the three, the lighthouse one seemed the most
appropriate given what was going on in the story. I file this one under
ABA, Art By Accident. (This is the one area academics never get into,
because it's totally random, not easily reductible...a nasty little
X-factor in their literary equations.)
For me, the interpretation part of the viewing experience is a synthesis
of what happens on either side of the screen. There is the author's
intent on the one side, and what the viewer perceives or responds to on
the other; art is what happens in the space between those two. For
instance, an artist can say, "The ball is blue." That is a simple
declarative sentence, theoretically accurate about the ball in his hand.
The viewer sees it, and if all conditions permit agreement -- a good TV,
not color blind -- says yes, the ball is blue.
The author's intention is absolutely clear, the interpretation either
non-existent or in simple agreement of fact (whichever way you want to
phrase that)...but is it art? Does it *resonate* or simply *inform*? A
news item about 17,000 more homeless people in a given city this week
*informs*. An interview with a homless mother, her child beside her,
crying...*resonates*.
The key is to communicate your statement as clearly as possible; you must
know what you intend to say, and to a large extent judge your success or
failure on the degree to which the audience correctly perceives your
intent. But to do so in an artful fashion. To somehow tie emotionally in
with the viewer, so that it causes a sympathetic vibration, the way a
tuning fork can make a champagne glass vibrate at a similar frequency.
The viewer should feel what YOU felt when you wrote it.
This is why I tend to gauge if my script works by whether or not it
affects me; if it makes me laugh out loud, I'm reasonably sure it's funny.
If I start to mist up at a scene, then it's probably going to do so to
others. It's the only yardstick I've got.
(On the other hand, there will *always* be some who just Don't Get It.
There are some who look at certain kinds of modern art and just weep for
the beauty of it. I see a triangle and a ball and a black smear, shrug
and move on. You just have to hope that you're sufficiently In Tune to
get the majority of people who are exposed to your work. As another
writer once said, "A book is like a mirror. If an ass looks in, you can't
exactly expect an apostle to peer out.")
Someone else once said, of art, "To define is to kill, to suggest is to
create." That part, the suggestion, the interpretation, is the place
where art happens.
jms
*****
"If you and associates like John Copeland and Doug Netter were in a
position to acquire the rights to a property by an author whose work you
respected (Harlan Ellison's screenplay for *I, Robot* comes to mind),
would you consider investing your time and energy to bring that work to
fruition (be it in television or cinema) as a *producer* rather than as a
writer?"
In a word...no.
Being a producer is a pain in the butt of mind-bending proportions. I
never had any desire to be a producer, and frankly still don't. It's not
an ambition or a career goal. The ONLY reason for wearing this particular
pointy cap, for putting up with the grief and the nonsense, is to protect
my words. That's *it*. I'm a writer, first and foremost. Producership
is just an insurance policy for the story. I would have no interest in
producing someone else's work.
I'm not a producer...I just play one on TeeVee.
jms
*****
I have known writers who feel that their work, their scripts, have been
fouled up by somebody rewriting them. And it happens. What power do you
have? None, really, if you're a freelancer. They can do whatever they
want to the script. The only recourse if you REALLY hate what they did is
to put on a pseudonym so nobody ever knows it was you.
I've been very lucky in that I'm generally very careful about who I work
for, I check them out thoroughly, and make it clear that I *don't* like
being rewritten, and will do as much work as necessary to avoid that. If
it's got my name on it, it should reflect my work. I'm responsible and
accountable for that, and people have come to expect a certain kind of
storytelling from me over the years...if that's going to be changed, I
don't want to be put in that situation.
The main area where you're most vulnerable is in the spec screenplay (or
screenplay in general) area. The practice these days is to buy a script
from person A, give it to person B to insert more gags, person C to
rewrite again for more action, writer D to do clean-up and tweak...and
what you get at the end is sausage.
Now, there are ways to avoid that. My agent has a number of spec scripts
that I've written over the years...mostly SF, some mysteries, some
comedies, one or two horror scripts. All for feature films. None have
yet been produced. But almost all of them have been optioned at one time
or another. (99% of all scripts optioned or purchased are never
made...scary, ain't it?) But the situation is that in all cases, the
producer buying or optioning the script must agree that all revisions will
be done by me. If not, then we pass. Does this end up with me not making
as much money? Absolutely. There were a number of times when one or the
other of these scripts were read, and we were told they'd be fast-tracked
into production...but they wanted the freedom to have it tinkered with by
others.
No, and in case it wasn't clear the first time...no. Money's never really
meant that much to me. You can only sleep in one bed at a time, eat one
meal at a time, live in one house at a time. I do okay. I'd rather wait
for someone to do the story right -- which was why I wrote it in the first
place -- than take the cash and watch it get messed up.
The problem, I think, is that a number of writers are too quick to take
the deal and worry about the rewriting or changes later.
jms
*****
"So, my question is, was this (An Edge In My Voice) your first interaction
with the man who a decade later would be the Creative Consulant on your
televison masterpiece? If not, what was?"
Depends on how you define interaction. I grew up reading Harlan's books,
and his commentaries on writing very much formed and influenced my own.
When I was in junior college, and I hit a period where the writing wasn't
selling (it had before, and did later, but I hit a slump at age 18),
noting his phone number in one of his books, I risked a call. It went
something like this: Phone rings.
"YEAH WHAT?"
"M-m-m-mister Ellison, my n-name is Joe Straczynski, and --"
'WHAT?"
"Well, see, I'm a writer, well, trying to be a writer, and lately my stuff
isn't selling, and I was thinking maybe you had some advice on --"
"Listen, kid, if your writing isn't selling, there's a simple reason for
it."
"Which would be?"
"It's crap. Stop writing crap and you'll sell. Anything else?"
"Errrrr....no, sir. Thank you." (click, and then hide in basement for 7
days.)
It's the same dopey question I get sometimes, and the folks who ask don't
know any better than I did at the time that there IS no answer to that
question. There was absolutely nothing he could've said to me that
would've meant a damn.
Years later, we met again in person, first at a Writers Guild picket at
CBS, then at the occasional social function. Somewhere along the line, we
became friends. One day, over dinner, I recited the above incident to
him, asked if he remembered. He said yes, and asked, "Were you offended?"
I considered it. "If you'd been wrong, I'd've been offended. But looking
back at what I was doing then, having gotten too caught up in academia and
what school teaches you writing is *supposed* to be about...it WAS crap.
As soon as I knocked that out of my head and just followed my gut, I began
selling again."
We're best buddies. Funny old life, ain't it...?
jms
******
I think that the influx of writer/producers onto the nets cannot help but
further the process of helping people understand (and thus influence)
television. Although a goodly portion of this is in the category of
"let's flog my new show/movie/whatever" some of it is also in the area of
discussions about how writing works. There're plenty of others doing this
out there beyond me, and what's good about that is that you end up with a
multiplicity of views; no one of us has the single right answer to any of
this. Any information we convey is anecdotal under the best of
conditions, and may be of more interest as curiosities than as How Things
Work, when taken alone; taken together, like blind men sizing up an
elephant, a picture of the whole slowly emerges.
I have heard that some of my stuff has ended up in term papers on the
media, and theses, and that's good in its limited way, given the
disclaimers above. There's just so much bad mythology and misinformation
about how things work that the more light that can get spread, the better.
jms
*****
"Each of those persons has gone away a smoking, crispy critter, in my
view. What I want to know is, is this a skill you've developed yourself,
or has your long association with Harlan been what gives you your
marksmanship skills with those Ellison Guns you fire?"
(blink, blink)
I'm a writer.
Anybody who goes up against ANY half-decent professional writer in a
*written* medium has got to be out of his gourd.
Beyond that...it isn't actually something I'm terribly proud of; any time
I've gone after somebody, regardless of how stupid or provocational the
original message might've been, I always find myself thinking I should've
handled it different. Yeah, somebody comes in looking for a fight, but I
shouldn't have to stoop to that level, and give them what they want,
really, which is attention. I should be aloof, dignified, above it
all....
Then some yipyop comes flying in with a snide, harrassing, abusive piece
of nonsense and suddenly I'm Arnold S. standing in the third-story window
in T2 firing every gun I've got. It's stupid. It's probably vaguely
Pavlovian. But nowhere in any of my online agreements does it stipulate
that I'll be a standing target.
On the other hand, I end up coming up with some nifty lines which
eventually wind up in Ivanova's mouth.
jms
*****
Greetings.
An associate of mine pressed upon me two years ago to watch B5. I
insisted the show was a poorly done ripoff with lousy acting and
un-revolutionary special effects. I had seen the 2 hour pilot movie with
the bad actors, clumsy storyline, abrasive music and pixellated planets
that I could have done in MacPaint, much less on an SGI or what-have-you.
My associate informed me that this was a poor reference point for the
show. I should, he proclaimed, watch five episodes, minimum. I said I
would. That summer I watched three. Just three.
My analysis of what I saw was that the acting was bad, the music was dull
and the storyline was infected with this overriding sense of penis penis
penis...what with the military around to wave its manhood in our faces and
a female character who was only justified by being more like a man
(Ivanova). And for heaven's sake it was a _space station_ and how much
different is THAT from Trek: DS9?!
Not long ago I watched two more episodes bringing the total to five.
Something changed.
Since Saturday July 13, I have watched forty-five episodes of Babylon 5.
In order.
I have been subsumed within the B5 consciousness. I intimately know the
characters, the storyline, motivations, plot, symbols, races, religions,
theology, permutations, blood, music, looks, nuances, artefacts, crafts,
needs, wants, LIVES AND DEATHS of the show. The show the show...
I have devoted the equivalent of 2 solid _days_ of viewing time within the
last week to Babylon 5. I normally watch 1/2-1 1/2 hours of television a
week. This week I have seen almost 50 hours of television. All of it
B5. Yesterday alone I watched 10 episodes. The words "all alone in the
night" send shivers into the depths of my central nervous system.
Garibaldi, Ivanova, Delenn the names the faces go on and on G'Kar,
Sheridan, Sinclair, Lennier, Londo...on and on. These are my close
personal _friends_.
My fiancee says I am being unhealthy. My friends tell me to slow down. I
will not.
While watching a few episodes last friday night (before The Run started) a
realization dawned. That teflon of sf tv, Trek, is _chickenshit_. I
mean, yes their resources are immense and their actors are excellent (with
the exception of Marina Sirtis and Wil Wheaton). BUT THEY ARE CHICKEN. I
said it out loud. Do any of you people realize how powerful a revelation
that is? To have a childhood friend revealed as someone who wouldn't dare
mess with their universe on the scale of B5? who is utterly captivated,
mesmerized into technogarble introversion by their own wonderful
machines? Do not mistake me. I love Star Trek. I will gladly put the
likes of Best of Both Worlds, The City on the Edge of Forever, The Maquis
and The Inner Light up against anything on television. But boldly gone
long in the tooth is the ugly truth of it.
I have seen Deathwalker, Comes the Inquisitor...on and on. Last night I
witnessed quite possibly the 2 most glorious hours of television I have
ever seen; the trilogy: Messages from Earth, Point of No Return and
Severed Dreams.
The acting can always use some work. But the STORY THE STORY! I _serve_
the story! But the performances are gaining a subtlety, a fragile beauty
that I have not seen on tv in years. I didn't know it could be this
good.
As a student of literature, theatre and theology I have had nearly every
string within me plucked into wondrous music. The myths that are playing
out before my eyes are stunning. Just the other night...the episode with
the memory-wiped priest/murderer...I heard one of the finest sermons I
have heard preached. The Vorlons? Kosh could be Martin Luther inside
that encounter suit, his words are so stirring. The entire show from top
to bottom grips and envelopes you in a thoroughly entertaining, involving,
mind shattering 40 minutes of art. I am consuming this show in humoungous
gulps and soon I will have caught up. I assure you.
Fans of B5, bless you. Those who are not...the message is getting out.
No one can supress it for long. A line has been drawn against the
darkness that is drab television and navel-gazing science fiction. That
line is Babylon 5. A shining beacon on the airwaves, all alone in the
night.
It is not our last best hope. No indeed. It is the promise of a new
future. Our first best hope for television's ascendancy to glory.
Great Maker, what a SHOW!
--
Reaper Man
olsen@augsburg.edu
*****
"I was really surprised to read in the TV Guide article that you don't
drive. How have you been able to live in auto-dependent Southern
California for so many years with out giving in and starting to drive? I'm
amazed that you manage to do it..."
So am I, some days.
It's a moral thing; I'm a *terrible* driver, easily distracted, my depth
perception sucks, and...I hit things. And they frown on that. So for the
good of the Commonweal, even though it's a monumental pain in the ass, I
stay off the road.
So when I can't catch a ride with someone, I have an occasional (per-job)
driver, or I get cabs. Used to ride the bus all the time. All the time I
was working at Filmation at the start of my TV staff career I bussed it
in; took about 2-2 1/2 hours to get from Glendale to Encino, approximately
a 45 minute drive by car.
Now it's usually just a car, one way or another, but it's still a pain.
At the same time, though, I know I could never live with myself if I ever
harmed someone else, so here we are....
jms
*****
"Do you agree with the Shadows motives?"
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Motives are one thing; the means to
achieving that motive, however, are a different issue. And those means I
do not agree with. But on some level, their motives can make sense...as
can the Vorlons' motives....
jms
*****
Since I've got nothing else to do at the moment...well, except write....
1) he prefers pepsi to coca-cola, though he prefers zima to both of them.
Actually Pepsi and Coke are about the same to me, though in a pinch I'll
go for Coke over Pepsi. As long as it's got caffeine, I'm a happy man.
Otherwise it's coffee (Arabian Mocha Sanani, preferably, or Silawesi).
Don't drink Zima. Don't drink *period*. Last thing you want is to give
an obsessive-compulsive personality a drink. Don't smoke or do drugs.
Utterly boring. My only vices are chocolate, coffee, soft drinks, and the
net.
2) he prefers dogs to cats, and prefers irish terriers over all other
dogs.
MUCH prefer cats to dogs. All kinds cats, but Abyssinians the most,
followed by your basic tabby cat. Dogs are okay, but overall the one
breed I'd ever consider owning -- even though it'd be a second career/job
to raise the creature -- would be an English Border Collie, the
obsessive-compulsives of the dog world.
3) his favorite sports are kickboxing and the ultimate fighting
championship.
Don't generally watch sports.
4) his favorite color is purple.
Black.
5) his favorite newspaper is usa today (all those nifty computer generated
graphics).
Who has time for ANY papers these days...?
6) his favorite breakfast is bacon and orange juice.
You left out scrambled eggs, a toasted water-bagel and coffee.
7) his preferred method of mailing packages is UPS.
FedEx.
And just to round stuff off...I use MovieMaster for script formatting,
Wordstar for general writing, my favorite meal is a good lean steak with
mashed potatoes, spinach, cut corn, I use a Dell pentium computer tricked
out with every device on the planet (including, shortly, ISDN), just
picked up an IBM Thinkpad 560 as my main road computer system, like my
foods well done, and my favorite TV shows (after B5, natch) are 60
Minutes, MST3K, The Simpsons, and X-Files.
That ought to blow a hole in this thread, I think....
jms
*****
We're all good, educated cynics here. You know it and I know it--
all this talk about writing a story for the good of society is a
smoke screen. "Dedicating yourself to a greater cause"? "Personal
accountability"? Nobody spends five years on something that
altruistic. And so, to clear up the confusion, we present
JMS' Top Ten _Real_ Reasons for Creating "Babylon 5":
10) Wanted a job in which three hours of net surfing a day could
count as work time.
9) As a writer, he never had authority over casting. As executive
producer he can ensure that every regular cast member is the
height _he_ considers normal, at least 6'1".
8) Always wanted a bubble bath based on something he'd written.
7) It's really just background for the followup series, "Biker
Babes of Mars," about the adventures of a gang of Hell's
Vorlons led by cigar-chomping Susan "God" Ivonova.
6) His idea of job security is doing something 24 hours a day.
5) Had a vision in which the story was laid out for him in detail
by a 200-foot-tall Rod Serling.
4) Always wanted to be a father figure to 50,000 disaffected
college students.
3) Not only can no one rewrite his words, nobody can second-
guess him on who or what should be "spaced." (This gives him
total control over the "cute" factor. It also keeps all of the
cast in line.)
2) Laying the groundwork for his religious cult, Sciencefictology,
based on the worship of immortal alien beings and Mira Furlan.
and the number one _real_ reason JMS is creating "Babylon 5"...
1) So people all around the world will finally be able to spell
S-T-R-A-C-Z-Y-N-S-K-I. Or is it -S-K-Y? S-T-R-Y-... uhhh.
Hmm.
Well, look on the bright side. There's still two seasons to go!
*****
"You're in a unique position, as the first TeeVee producer/writer/show
creator to interact on Usenet with the fans of your series. I'm writing
up a Usenet dossier for Bryce Zabel, executive producer of _Dark Skies_,
who is thinking of coming online in an interactive capacity when his show
starts airing this fall. Do you have any advice that he, or others who
come online in the future, would find useful?"
Hi, Bryce. Don't know if we've met, but I've seen your work, and seen you
about; was lurking in the back of your Fangoria talk a bit ago. Also saw
the pilot (ve haff vays); I think it has great potential. How you're
going to work the structure of the story once they're out, without
support, we'll see. (said vaguely to avoid spoilers) That aside....
He should be sure what he's here for. If it's just promotion...it almost
ain't worth the time involved. Lots of folks have used the nets to
promote stuff, but for one thing it pisses people off that once the
promotion part is over, boom, they're gone (a la "Sneakers" a year or so
ago). And the cold reality is that if you added up everyone who reads the
nets...it ain't even a blip on the ratings.
The best way to maintain a presence on the nets is to get a sense of the
room, to see if what you're doing is working *in general*. You'll get
tons of conflicting opinions, so you can't let that sway the story...but
you'll know, in general, if the story you're telling is getting through,
and succeeding.
I'd strongly suggest you adopt the same "no story ideas" policy I've used,
particularly with a show like "Dark Skies," where it would be easy for
somebody to say, "Okay, aliens get involved in X real-life historical
situation," even though it's the obvious thing, which you'd already
planned to handle, and then sue you for plagiarism. Best to avoid it all
up-front.
How you deal with criticism is up to you. We all react differently.
Online fans are bracingly blunt in their opinions; this is generally a
good thing, except where sometimes some of them forget they're talking to
a real person, not a computer screen. But it's a good thing overall. If
someone's being unfair, say so, but other than that...you're in for quite
a ride.
The good thing about the nets is that it's the great social equalizer.
The bad thing about the nets is that it's the great social equalizer.
Anyone with a modem has equal access, equal say. Which is terrific. We
can be tall, short, fat, skinny, old, young...what matters is the quality
of the thoughts and the clarity of their expression.
The flip side of this...if someone came toward you with a bright orange
fright wig, dead cats strapped to his chest and a live parrot up his ass,
you'd have sufficient warning that this may be a Loony, and thus avoid the
person. On the nets, you don't get that kind of advance warning. There
are some loonies here. They get the same access as everyone else, they
can get on because they bought a modem, but they live for the singular
purpose of making your life a living hell, because you have created
something, they have created nothing, and they can only live with that
contradiction if they tear you down. Some of them are literally
psychologically disturbed, and potentially dangerous. And you won't have
any notion who they are until one day, after exchanging private or public
mail, the dog satellite goes by overhead and they turn on you viciously,
start spreading rumors, attacking you in public...and you realize that
yep, this person has a parrot up his ass.
Happily, those folks remain the exception rather than the rule. The
remaining 99% are fun, and intelligent, and can teach you things about
your own show you didn't know were there.
Jump on in...the water's fine.
jms
*****
John, begin by understanding that there *is* no such thing as a
completely original story. All the archetypes, sterotypes,
essential plots, etc. have been told before, in many and various
combinations. The trick is to find new and entertaining ways of
putting different pieces together, in a manner that will speak to
the here-and-now, if not to the ages.
The creative process can be very different for each writer. I've
been writing fiction since the sixth grade (sf/fantasy and a
little bit of adventure), have quite a bit of prose under my
belt, have edited fanzines, helped amateurs become pros, and
pestered the heck out of my professional mentors when I was still
trying to master the basics of my craft.
There's a lot I could tell you about my personal evolution as a
writer (and the growth process never ends, believe me. If you
think you have learned all you need to know and can't get any
better, then you have even more to learn than you realize). But
as to your particular question....
We are all influenced by what we see and read, and to deny that
would be to lie. But the more you have read and seen, the more
any single influence is sort of "watered down." Do research.
Study legends, folklore, mythology. Learn as much as you can
about any area upon which you intend to touch, or in which you
are interested. Build a deep foundation of knowledge so that
even though you are influenced, you are not *imitating* others'
works.
When you find yourself being influenced by the works of others,
study them as closely as you can. Try to identify what it is in
these stories that is touching you, and in the process, you will
begin to find your own inner voice. *That* is what you want to
put into your writing. Use your imagination to invent characters
and places and peoples that embody those elements with which you
identify, but don't make clones of things you have already seen.
And while you're learning, try to avoid doing fan fiction. I
wrote dozens of short stories, novellas, and novels of my own
imagination long before I felt I was a sufficiently mature writer
to attempt derivate fiction. Because when you're writing
something based on another's creation, you have to try to not
only understand that universe and the mind of the one who created
it, you also have to find a way to make your own voice sing in
harmony with theirs. It is *damned* difficult, and although it
can be a tremendous and satisfying challenge, it is not an
experience for novices (unless they're just playing around for
practice).
Good luck! And I hope Joe can provide you with some better
insights than I.
MJ
*****
I try to write but find my work greatly influenced by outside sources such
as other written works, movies and television shows. I seem to be unable
to write something that hasn't already been done or write something that
has been done in a different way. Does that make sense?"
There's a quote, I forget who said it: "Of course everything has already
been said, but since no one was listening, we must begin again."
The problem, I see, in what you've described...and this is on the benefit
of three paragraphs and ten seconds thought, so take this with a grain of
salt...is that you don't actually know what it is you want to say as a
writer. Or that you need to say. You're drawing sources from outside
wriers, TV shows, "unable" to do otherwise, by your statement.
Let me toss another quote in here, again from a source I can't recall:
"Too many people mistake a passion for reading with a desire to write."
It's possibly you may fall under this category.
See, the problem with the writing biz is that everyone has access to
keyboard, and we all think we can write, if we just had the time to do it.
Not true. Give me a warehouse full of paintbrushes and easels, and 100
years, and I may in time become adequate, but never more than that.
Writing is a mug's game. It's heartbreak. It's pain and struggle and
rejection and isolation and the only reason...the ONLY reason...to do it
is if you've got something to say, something that burns in you so that you
can't *NOT* write. If you're doing it on a whim, as a curiosity, as you
say "trying your hand," then this may not be the field for you. This is a
hardass, hard-work, lifetime job, and if you're not driven to say
something, maybe you should consider something else.
On the other hand...you're 18. Sometimes it takes us a while to figure
out just what the hell it is we want to say, or want to do. What it is
you need to say may not have occured to you yet. On a third hand, I think
all writers begin by playing around with other writer's voices, using
techniques of other writers as sort of training wheels while they hone
their own voice, dropping them by the wayside as new personal techniques
are perfected, until the writer's voice is unique.
Decide what it is you want, and what you *need,* not what seems like
itmight be kinda interesting...the rest takes care of itself.
jms
*****
HP Lovecraft (one of the creators of the modern horror story, and one
of the greatest genre writers ever) started out writing horrible
pastiches of Lord Dunsany. Gibson walked out of BladeRunner because
it was so much like Neuromancer, which he was still writing at the
time. The plot of Star Wars was based on the standard fantasy epic.
As Mark Rein*Hagen (creator of Vampire: the Masquerade RPG) said,
"Creativity is hiding your sources." He may have stolen that from
someone.
I used to be on the Science Fiction Roundtable on GEnie (which was a
wonderful place before GEnie went to hell). There were a lot of
pro-writers there, and once in a while I would ask them about what it
takes to get published, how do you learn to write, etc, etc, etc.
Basically everyone's answer is the same and no one likes to hear it (I
know I didn't at the time).
To learn to write, you need to write. Write crap. Write boring
derivative unoriginal stuff. Most decent writers aren't that
impressed by their own writing. They see their own influences, where
they ripped off other peoples styles, techniques, etc. However your
friends and family won't see that stuff. They see what you did that
is new and original, and is good. So show your friends and family
your stuff. And after you get an ego boost from them, re-write your
story once or twice, and then send it into a small magazine. One
magazine at a time, btw (just submission ettiquette. There are other
little things like that, but I don't have a list of them. I'm sure
someone has a web page). They'll probably reject it the first time.
Re-write it again and send it back or send it someplace else. I don't
care how bad and unoriginal the story started, eventually the damn
thing will be published somewhere, even if it takes 20 years.
Every time you do this, with every story, your technique will get
better, your style will become more yours, and your name will become
known, at least to editors. So when you do have that perfect idea
that no one has come up with before. You'll have the tools you need
to create the story, send it out and get it published.
Sounds like a lot of work. It is (that's why I haven't done it :D).
but no one said writing is easy.
I hope this helps you.
*****
"And the funniest part of all is, JMS actively supports the party and the
individual politicians who brought you the "Communications Decency Act,"
which would, if it hadn't been hamstrung by a court which had actually
read the Constitution, have resulted in eventual restraint of such modes
of expression......"
That's right, Gharlane. I supported the individuals now residing in the
White House, and still do...because I'm not a one-issue person. Is the
CDA a stupid, invidious, badly written, paranoid, neanderthal, repressive
bill? Absolutely. And I supported the people who were actively against
it, as I was actively against it. I don't have this notion that I must
agree 100% with a politician, or have that politican hew to every single
belief which I hold, in order to support him or her. There can be
respectful (or loud) disagreements on principle on individual points.
The issue is: *on balance*, which side do I tend to support? Both parties
are flawed. Candidates on both sides have eccentricities, failings,
misfired notions. But on balance...you've got Bob Dole, who doesn't have
any notion on the leadership of this country except the vague idea that
he's *earned* his shot, and he's going to have it. It's not about
providing a new vision, it's just about being the one wearing the pointy
hat. He wants the ultimate promotion.
Kemp I find interesting, but saddled with Dole this is a non-starter. And
from where I sit the Republican party has capitulated to the Religious
Right on every issue of substance...people who've said they want to
designate this a Christian nation, drag creationism into the schools
(saying they want balance, but I don't see anybody offering to let folks
teach Darwin from the church pulpit on Saturday nights), who've whipped up
so much hatred against physicians and classes that murdering doctors is
simply an unfortunate consequence....
Are there flaws to the Democratic side? Absolutely. An inability to come
to grips with social programs long in need of serious reform, a
soft-hearted and sometimes soft-headed approach to social organization,
de-emphasis on infrastructure in deference to social programming, too much
concern about words and not enough concern about actions, grass-roots
disorganization....
You say you're a fan of this show. Well, consider this: that if the
government envisioned by Phyllis Schlafly and Pat Buchanan and Robert Dole
and Bob Dornan and Alfonse D'Amato (possible spelling error there) ever
took serious hold in this nation, Babylon 5 -- with its sometimes
subversive nature, its open and frank discussions on religion, death,
sexuality, violence, the conflict between belief and medicine -- would be
the first program chucked out the door.
It was under the Reagan years that the Captain Power series -- for all its
flaws, some episodes very good, some less so -- got shot out from under
the producers because of the then-fashionable assault on violent TV by
pressure groups (many of them on the far right), so don't tell me it can't
happen...I was the one on the opposite side of the conference table when
religious-right "consultants" on Satanism advised the network on another
show where I was working on what they had to do to avoid sending
unintentional Satanic messages, which meant leaving out references to
fictional books like the Necronomicon, being unable to use the name
Lovecraft, and being told that the signs of a kid succumbing to Satanism
are "he's curious...he's sometimes depressed...he tries to reject
authority...and he's susceptiple to peer pressure." No, I'm NOT making
that up, that's verbatim.
And these are the same groups bending the Republican party to their own
whims. I've seen their work up-close and personal, and I tell you
frankly, that if they got in charge, this show would be deep-sixed so fast
it'd make your head spin.
The present administration may be muffin-headed at times, may have its
personal pecadillos and quirks...but compared to the mean, venal,
anti-intellectual, anti-artist opposition, the opposition of Jesse Helms
and Pat Buchanan...I'll take it, and be glad of it, and when something as
inherently dopey and destructive as the CDA gets passed, be absolutely
open in complaining about it.
And thank you for dragging my personal politics back into this...and
throwing it in my face. Anything else you'd like to drag up?
jms
*****
"As one who has successfully accomplished both, which do you consider the
most difficult: Getting a first novel published, or getting a first TV
series on the air? I'm not speaking in terms of the amount of work
involved, rather I mean the difficulty in overcoming the odds against you
in each respective field."
This is a no-brainer. The TV series is the hardest. To write and sell a
novel, you need just write the novel; once it's out there, you don't have
to have written 15 prior successful novels to get it sold. The book is
judged on its quality and marketability, and if it's good, somebody buys
it.
My first novel, DEMON NIGHT, sat in a closet for, oh, about 2 years
(having written it just for myself) until my agent got wind of it, sent it
off to a NY affiliate, who sent it to an editor/publisher, who bought it
on sight. This was when I didn't really have much of a name in TV (which
actually works against you in literary circles), so that wasn't a factor.
Now, obviously, that's an extremely fortuntate and atypical series of
events, but still indicative in this sense....
People come to me and say they want to sell a TV series. I try and tell
them it's impossible if you don't have a credit list an arm long. Not
difficult, we're not talking here degrees of difficulty or "overwhelming
odds," there ARE no odss. It's simply impossible. Can't be done. Hasn't
been done.
Ideas are a dime a dozen. What a network wants is someone who's shown he
or she can run a series, write for TV, and produce for TV. (Or film for
those who've crossed over.) If a network is going to spend upwards of $22
million for a series in one year, not even COUNTING what's spent on
advertising, marketing, publicity, overhead and the like, they need to
have a certain comfort factor, they need to know that the person knows
what s/he's doing, and is an experienced writer/producer or, preferably, a
full-blown show runner.
You don't have to have that for novels. The odds of selling a first novel
are, from what I heard somewhere once, about 1 in 6,000. The odds of
selling a first TV series if you don't have credits are 0.
If you *do* have credits, the odds are still massively stacked against
you. Every season, the networks put maybe 10-15 shows each into
development. That refers to as little as a single pilot script order, or
as much as multiple scripts, a produced pilot, or pilot plus X-number of
episodes. Of those 10-15, maybe 4 or 5 will ever see the light of day.
The rest simply vanish. So that's about 50 possible series per year (and
that's a very generous figure). There are around 6,000 members of the
Writers Guild.
Most writer/producers go through several development deals before ever
getting anything on the air. And B5 wasn't my first in that sense. I
developed series for CBS, ABC, syndication groups, re-developed the V
series for Warner Bros., and others. It's a very, very long progression
to this particular chair.
jms
*****
"After season three's writing marathon, do you consider yourself a science
fiction writer, at least to the extent that you won't be annoyed when our
soundbyte media feels the need to pigeon-hole you into a single category?"
I don't tend to put myself into any one category, but generally don't get
bugged when I'm referred to one way or another. After my first couple of
horror novels, and a nomination for a Bram Stoker Award, and the Nightmare
Classics gig for Showtime, I was called a horror writer...I did The Real
Ghostbusters and they said I was a comedy writer...I went to conventions
while I was a writer/producer on Murder She Wrote and one person with whom
I shared a panel asked what somebody who just wrote TeeVee mysteries was
at an SF convention and why anyone should listen...and now people call me
an SF writer.
It doesn't bother me. It's actually kind of funny on one level, that
people feel they have to somehow pigenhole you by whatever you've done
last. But beyond that, as an SF fan, with a great respect for the genre,
if somebody calls me an SF writer, I don't mind.
"I think TNT will really establish this series in the mainstream culture
and wonder if you've ever had to fight the public's perception of you."
I think the mainstream public was for the most part unaware of me. Still
is, I think. And that's okay too. It's about telling a story, not
getting a certain kind of approbation.
"Do you think you'll be able to resist the gravitational pull of
"science-fiction" fame? Before your writing has been pretty much all over
the place and not giving anyone the opportunity to ensconce your name into
a genre. Do you see yourself writing science fiction for a long time or
being a guest at science fiction conventions every once in a while for the
rest of your life? Or will you purposely zig-zag away in another
direction?"
I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing. I've been playing around
with a notion for a series that could do something quite revolultionary
for mainstream TV, and that'll get me described as a manstream/intrigue
writer...if it goes anywhere. If not, I'll just keep going from genre to
genre as the stories grab me. That's the only real criterion I can apply.
I follow the story that interests me. If that happens to be a horror
novel, it's a horror novel; if it's an SF story, it's SF. I go where the
story takes me.
jms
*****
To your questions:
Yes, we'll see Theo once more in year 3.
You'll hear more from ISN in year 4.
The new Vorlon arrives in "Walkabout," and Lyta's situation will be
explored more in the first part of year 4.
The Earth First and other groups haven't gone away, but been consolidated,
as we'll find soon enough.
jms
*****
As it happens...yes, I did call Darin Morgan's agent once I learned he'd
left X-Files. I think he's the one other person who could write this show
about as well as I can...he has the right perverse mix of weird humor,
dark drama, and solid characterizations that typify both shows. He's
taking a break from TV for a while, however, wanting to concentrate on
comedy, his first love.
I was nothing less than thrilled when I heard he got the Emmy. He's a
dynamite writer. The first ep of his that I saw, I missed the opening
credits, and spent most of the next day on the phone, trying to find out
who that was, 'cause whoever it was, I said at the time, they ought to let
him write ALL the scripts he wants, because he's Got It. It was like that
moment in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," where they keep looking
behind them at the posse and asking, "Who the hell ARE those guys?" I had
to know who this guy was. I love what he does with dialogue and
character.
As it turns out, we're both in competition for a Sci-Fi Universe award,
and while I'm obviously going to put my name in first, if a second vote is
allowed, I'm voting for Darin, and if he wins, I'll be absolutely and
sincerely pleased. His is a rare talent.
jms
*****
It has to get real dark before it can get light; and if you're going to
have a war, you have to have battles. But believe me, there's a lot more
coming down the pike of a different sort.
jms