> Putting the characters through pain is never a problem for me.
>That's where all the *interesting* stuff happens. And growth only comes
>through pain and struggle. So it's for their own good, really.
>
> jms
To quote from S C Sykes' novel "Red Genesis":
"Our need to create,to move and rearrange, to *make better*, is due to
our need to reach toward that wholeness we all lack. It's the very
pain of our imperfections that causes us to reach inside and find
whatever gifts we may have. Those with the greatest pain, the greatest
need, speak most eloquently for those who have no voice."
Jeannette
_____________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa35@dial.pipex.com
*****
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 1:57:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279131
Everyone always tells you it won't happen, you're wasting
your time, it's pointless...because that's how they want to think,
because someone achieving something makes someone who may not have
done so feel self- conscoius, because they KNOW you and as it says
in the New Testament "A prophet is without honor only in his own
land and among his own people," and because overall the system is
designed to keep you IN. A writer by nature removes him- or herself
from the system of 9-5 office type work. Over time you make your
own hours, your own schedule, you select who you work for... you're
outside the normal space/time continuum, and between you and that
goal is one hell of a lot of surface tension.
Every writer has been told, at some point, "You'll never make
it, why waste your time?" Ninety percent of the time, they're right.
Ten percent of the time they're not. But you won't know which camp
you fall in until you try.
jms
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:14 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279382
I started writing at 14; started selling at 17.
One warning re: 300+ page books at this point...if nothing
happens, and it may or may not, it can be a big stumbling block to
get over. Don't let the smaller stories get away from
you either. It's good to do a variety of things.
jms
Subj: B5 & JMS books Section: Babylon 5
To: Jeannette Fornadel, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 10:39:08 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279853
The differences between screenwriting and a novel...would take
a book to communicate. Suffice for now to say just that the strengths
of a novel are all internal (internal monologue, POV, narrative
descriptions), and the strength of a screenplay is all external
(dialogue and visuals).
Which is why the best novels often make the worst movies.
jms
*******
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Derek Paterson, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 2:13:01 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279164
Re: things you don't expect to happen...that's kind of one
aspect I was after here. By way of comparison....
There's one great thing about The Shining, despite some other
flaws in the film: they set up Scatman Cruthers (sp?) as the one guy
who understands what's going on...he gets the Shining, he's a potentially
heroic character, and when all hell breaks loose, he's the one to
get into the snow plow, cross terrible weather, we're all sure he's going
to get there and fight the menace...he overcomes weather and nonsense
to get there...he blows through the front door, ready for action....
and gets an axe in the middle of his chest and dies.
I *loved* that, and always kinda wanted to something of that nature,
where you set someone up to be that kind of character, the future,
whatever, then you yank it back and let the audience say, Oh, hell,
NOW what?
jms
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Simon Grierson, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:10 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279380
Boy, a whole lotta questions, and not *one* I can answer at this
time without spoiling stuff for down the road.
Well, actually, there *is* one I can answer.
No, the B5 facilities were never flooded.
And thanks for the reaction....
jms
******
Subj: << Divided Loyalties >> Section: Babylon 5
To: Brian Deane, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:12:11 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279381
I'd say the next 3 are equal or more on a wow scale,
in some ways.
One other thought on Talia...one of the motifes we've played
with from the start was always showing Talia in mirrors...in Race,
in Z'ha'dum and others...always showing the reflection, her opposite,
just to set stuff up on an emotional/symbological level.
jms
******
Subj: <<Divided Loyalties>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Colin Radford, Tuesday, July 25, 1995 5:23:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#279408
Remember, Kosh was the one who sent those images into Sheridan's
brain, not anybody else; he was communicating useful information that
may come up down the road, but in rather symbological form.
jms
******
Subj: <<DL questions>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Ruth Ballam, Wednesday, July 26, 1995 2:35:22 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#280585
In the B5 universe, as a general rule of thumb, people don't just
come back after something like this. "Talia" has been destroyed
permanently; that's what it said in the episode, and that's the way
it'll stay.
jms
*****
Writing women has never been a problem for me. I like women, both
romantically (when I was still in the marketplace) and intellectually, as
friends. For as long as I can remember, the majority of my friends have
been women. I have a goodly number of men friends, but what can I say, I
like the way many women think. Specifically, I like women who are usually
smarter than me, who are funny, independent, self-assured and know their
own mind. So it's not much of a stretch, therefore, that when I sit down
to write female characters, *that's* what tends to come out most of the
time.
I've had a *lot* of relationships in my time; the total number of
intimate relationships (yeah, I'm talking about *that*) I once figured
worked out to about 50. On one level, I'm not terribly proud of that
figure, it reflects a period when I was trying to find...I dunno...
SOMEdamnthing...but on the other hand, it's given me a LOT of material from
which to draw.
jms
******
Well JMS this time you have really gone and done it, sitting here after
watching The Long Twilight Struggle I am *Speechless*, this episode to my
mind superceeds any other I have seen by a million miles in terms of action
content. Its powerful images brought forth many *strong* emotions including,
the odd tear.
IMHO it is your finest work to date, in some strange way I feel priviliged
to witness your work, as it puts SF TV where it always had the potential
to go, but has never had anyone able to do so....until now.
Didn't put in any spoilers, but if anybody wishes to ask me question direct
I would be happy to answer them.
--
Max Bone max@maxmax.demon.co.uk Co Durham, England.
*****
Max Bone <max@maxmax.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Well JMS this time you have really gone and done it, sitting here after
>watching The Long Twilight Struggle I am *Speechless*, this episode to my
>mind superceeds any other I have seen by a million miles in terms of action
>content. Its powerful images brought forth many *strong* emotions including,
>the odd tear.
>IMHO it is your finest work to date, in some strange way I feel priviliged
>to witness your work, as it puts SF TV where it always had the potential
>to go, but has never had anyone able to do so....until now.
I second those sentiments Max. It is beyond my capacity to express how
grateful I am for what we have been given here. God, sentimental old
fool, I'm sitting here crying now! Later.....
Jeannette
_______________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa25@dial.pipex.com
******
Thank you. I'm quite frankly thrilled beyond words at the preliminary
reactions from the UK to this episode; we worked *really* hard on it, and
I can't tell you what the reactions mean to us.
jms
*****
Forgive the language, but HOLY SHIT! Thank you for the most memorable
emotional moment on TV for me for years. I refer to the scene in the
council chambers with Londo laying down the terms of surrender. When
Sheridan and Delenn stood up for G'kar I was on my feet my heart pounding.
I just wanted to punch Londo so much I can't tell you! The whole scene
was fantastic... thank you! The CGI was also excellent, but for me,
G'kar and Londo stole the show. Awesome... how can it get any better!?
Adam T
jms replies:
"how can it get any better?"
Has to, though. We took a blood oath on this show that each season
must be better than the one preceding. In many ways, we're still the new
kids on the block, and we can't afford to ever once let our guard down and
settle for anything less than constant striving. And, frankly, though it's
endless struggle, it's kinda fun on another level; we discover and invent
new ways to do things, and new approaches to story and production, on a
regular basis (tomorrow we're seeing some new CGI tricks from Ron via some
beta-test software that should let us do some truly nifty stuff...).
jms
******
Subj: <Long Twilight Struggle> Section: Babylon 5
To: John Lester, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 11:34:09 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286700
"Joe, you do not disappoint."
I'm trying *awful* hard not to. Doing this show right is terribly
important to all of us involved in it. I really want it to be the kind
of show I've always wanted to watch as a fan. And I'm very, very pleased
that the writing is generally satisfactory. Sometimes, when
behind the keyboard, one has grave doubts if it's good enough....
jms
******
Subj: <Long Twilight Struggle> Section: Babylon 5
To: Steve Trease, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 1:14:06 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286149
<I've just finished watching The Long Twilight Struggle. Wow!
What can I say? By far the best episode yet. You have really
increased the pace of the series How are you going to
sustain it for another three years?
The acting was brilliant. Especially, Andreas Katsulas and
Peter Jurasik.
The scene over the Narn homeworld where you pan toward Londo
through the ship's window was incredible.
Oh, well, that's enough sycophancy for now...>
Thanks. It's definitely one of my favorite episodes.
The intensity is terrific.
jms
Subj: <<TLTS: CGI>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Spencer Collyer Tuesday, August 01, 1995 3:56:17 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286284
<Joe,
I'd just like to add my appreciation to you and your crew for
a superb episode in _The Long, Twilight Struggle_. This one
certainly lived up to its billing, and I just find it difficult
to believe you can top it (although this is one thing on which
I _know_ I'm going to be proved wrong - and happily so <g>)
I know Andreas is going to get much well-deserved praise for his
performance this week, but I'd like also to extend my appreciation
to your CGI crew - I don't think I have _ever_ seen a space battle
portrayed so well that I actually felt like it was real, that a
camera had somehow managed to record the events portrayed, as the
one between the Narn and Shadows.>
Thanks. Yeah, that scene is one of my favorites; a lot of work
went into it, and I think it shows.
jms
Subj: <<DL foreshadowing?>> Section: Babylon 5
To: John McAuley, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 3:56:20 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286285
<Urrrrr????
So Talia was Control?
Abel was reporting to B13?
Control was listing and informed B13 that Talia could be a problem?
B13 told Abel to eliminate Talia?
The question that springs to mind here is....
Did Control do a big Tom-and-Jerry swallow at this point?
You know: its really loud and your adams apple goes up and down.
PS
I've just seen TLTS.
Is that the first time the camera has moved in a composite live
action / CGI shot?>
Oh, heavens, no...we often move the camera in composite shots;
all of the push-ins to the Zen garden are that way.
Hard stuff we do all the time; it's the impossible stuff that's
fun.
jms
Subj: <<Long Stug:Twiglght>> Section: Babylon 5
To: Simon Grierson, Tuesday, August 01, 1995 11:23:18 PM
From: J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#286690
<JMS,
I've just finnished watching (a video of) The Long Struggle Through
the Twiglight.
I was convinved Last weeks episode was top notch. But this weeks
episode! WOW!
I felt SO sorry for G'kar. I felt TOTTALLY outraged at the Centari,
although I do hold a certain sympathy for Londo Molari. He is obviously
regretting his action, but is too far along the road of disaster to turn
his back, or do anything to alter his actions. That sad look as he
looked out of the battlecruiser's window.
G'kar must feel so alone, his mother world almost completely descimated,
his family probably dead, and his government disbanded and taken over by
the dictatorship of the Centauri. To think, at the beginning of B5s run,
I was under the impression that G'kar was the 'baddie'. Oh, how things are
so different. I suppose I'm guilty of 'whell, he looks nasty, so he MUST be
the baddie!' <G>
Then we have the developments 'in' the planet. I KNEW that we'd see the
technology used someday. An allience! Yay! Big guns and super technology! Yay!
<G> (ther's my childish Big is Best mentality polking through!). Who will be
the other allies though? I presume the Vorlons will become more and more
involved, judging by what Dellen and Kosh have been saying. And then we have
the 'rangers', and Minbar. Maybe even refugee, resistence Narn
(I know you named that after the indian unleaven bread! <G>).
Now we have more exciting stuff to look forward to:
1. Kosh doing a strip tease. (last episode).
2. According to SFX:- B5 becomming an indipendent state.
3. Err, new uniforms to go with 2?
I REALLY can't wait 'till next tuesday! Just exactly when will timetravel be
invented?
In conclusion, I am only MORE fanatical about B5. I CANNOT WAIT untill
Season3 starts. It's going to be VERY exciting!
All we need now is bigger guns and lots of Spiders being spallterred! (I noticed
the Narn damaged a Shadow ship. This indicates they aren't invulnerable. Heh,
the little BUGgers can be swatted afterall!).
Thankyou, and thankyou 1000 times more. Keep it up. I shall personally go nuts
if you dont!
<G>>
Thanks. It's difficult to keep topping each season, and each episode,
but we're dedicated to continuing to try.
jms
*****
This week the North American market sees a repeat of "In the Shadow of
Z'ha'dum," which features a surprising display of spine by Vir Cotto in
the opening teaser. Vir's behavior in that episode lept to my mind
recently when I came across two passages in Tolkien's *The Fellowship of
the Ring*, the first volume of his *Lord of the Rings* trilogy:
'But where shall I find courage?' asked Frodo. 'That
is what I shall chiefly need.'
'Courage is found in unlikely places,' said Gildor.
* * *
There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is
true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit,
waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow.
Perhaps the awakening of courage in Frodo, Samwise, Meriadoc, and
Peregrin will have a *B5* counterpart in Vir's growth. Time will tell.
Of course, there is a small cottage industry on this group devoted to
noting apparent links between *Babylon 5* and *The Lord of the Rings*.
Without falling into the trap of assuming a one-to-one correspondence
between the works (remember, *B5* is not *LotR* "with the serial numbers
filed off"), there are resonances that demonstrate JMS's acknowledged
admiration for the work. There have been repeated notices of the
following affinities:
Gandalf's "Expect me when you see me" (cf. G'Kar in "Chrysalis")
The Company of the Ring consisting of Nine Walkers (cf. Valen's
assembling the first Nine)
Gildor's "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are
subtle and quick to anger" (cf. Elric in "The Geometry of
Shadows")
The presence of wide-roaming Rangers in both Middle Earth and the
B5 galaxy
While browsing in my favorite used-book store last month, I came upon a
hardcover boxed set of *The Lord of the Rings* in pristine condition.
Taking it as a sign of one way to get through The Long Wait, I bought
the set on the spot and began to treat myself to a re-reading of
Tolkien's epic. (What a joy! After all these years, it continues to
thrill, all the way to those final paragraphs at the ends of Appendices
A and B, which, for all their simplicity, still rip me up when I read
them.) In addition to the two quotations cited above that helped me get
a better fix on Vir's character, here are a few other resonances I noted
along the way:
*LotR* opens with Bilbo's "eleventy-first" birthday; however,
hobbits count in base ten, unlike the Minbari, who count in
base eleven
Gandalf, early on in the story, says of Gollum, "My heart tells me
that he has some part to play yet;" later, on the Road to
Rivendell, Glorfindel declares, "my heart warns me that the
pursuit is now swift behind us;" and much later Gandalf says,
"Yet my heart guessed that Frodo and Gollum would meet before
the end" (cf. Delenn's declaration that her heart tells her
she must remain on Babylon 5 rather than become Leader in
"Babylon Squared")
One epithet of the traitorous Saruman is the White Hand, and one
epithet of Sauron is the Black Hand (cf. the abundant "hand"
imagery in *B5*)
Gandalf, on his death and rebirth after defeating the Ballrog, says,
"I have passed through fire and deep water" (cf. Delenn quoting
Valen in "The Parliament of Dreams" and warning Lennier of the
danger of associating with her in "All Alone in the Night")
I can't help but wonder how much JMS was struck by Gandalf's poem about
Strider/Aragorn in the letter that Butterbur delivered to Frodo:
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
As we contemplate the mortality of characters in a series conceived by
JMS, we might bear this exchange between Frodo and Sam in mind:
'And that's the way of a real tale. Take any one that you're fond
of. You may know, or guess, what kind of a tale it is, happy-
ending or sad-ending, but the people in it don't know. And you
don't want them to.'
'No, sir, of course not. Beren now, he never though he was
going to get that Silmaril from the Iron Crown in Thangorodrim,
and yet he did, and that was a worse place and a blacker danger
than ours. But that's a long tale, of course, and goes on past
the happiness and into grief and beyond it--and the Silmaril went
on and came to earendil. And why, sir, I never thought of that
before! We've got--you've got some of the light of it in that
star-glass that the lady gave you! Why, to think of it, we're
in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales
never end?'
'No, they never end as tales,' said Frodo. 'But the people
in them come, and go when their part's ended. Our part will end
later--or sooner.'
And as Frodo, preparing to depart for the Grey Havens, explains to Sam,
'I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for
me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some
one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.'
***************************************************************************
***** sorso@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu ***** "Every silver lining has a cloud." *****
***************************************************************************
******* "That's the fiendishness of it. They're ALL arc episodes!" *******
***************************************************************************
*****
Of course JMS can do things wrong! And if we don't tell him then he
could throw any old garbage our way(not that he would) and we'd have
to swallow it.
What can he do wrong?
Well, following the initial WOW! reactions to tLTS these are the
things that the guys on umtsb5 disliked about it:
1/ The actor who played Draal was crap! His attempts to be
light-hearted and funny didn't work. It was neither in keeping with
the older Draal from VitW nor was it acted well. I've seen better
acting on Neighbours!
2/ The great scene with G'Kar praying was spoilt at the end when he
snuffed out the candle. Who had snuffed out all the others!?
3/ The whole B story detracted from the general sense of increasing
gloom and doom. Maybe JMS wanted to remind us that the light still has
a chance but I don't think it was necessary. The B story knocked marks
off the score for a lot of the B5ers on umtsb5.
4/ The final scene with the Rangers was far too rushed. Everything was
explained too briefly and accepted by Sheridan too easily. This
deserved a much better treatment.
5/ After initially liking Sheridan's closing speech I agreed that BB
does not do speeches of import with any great conviction. This has
been done before by JMS too - closing an episode with a Sheridan
speech. The episode should have ended with one of the darker moments.
Perhaps Londo hearing about the Centauri annexing other worlds.
Saying all that this was still one *great* episode.
What I did like:
1/ The acting of PJ and AK.
2/ The look on Sheridan's face when Delenn says, "Abso-fraggin'-lutely
dammit!"
3/ The CGI! The CGI! The CGI!
4/ The pan in to Londo on board the Centauri vessel and then the
change to the view from inside the ship with Londo's reflection in the
glass and the view outside.
5/ The mass destruction weapons firing.
6/ The Shadow ships spitting out the cluster bomb that split into
little Shadow craft.
7/ The Shadow craft piggybacking to take out the damaged one.
8/ GKar's shame and despair in the council chamber and his final
refusal to knuckle under to Londo's overbearing arrogance.
9/ After Sheridan shook G'Kar's hand, G'Kar looked at it then closed
it in a fist with a look that said, "I've got him!" At last G'Kar has
got Sheridan's promise of help.
10/ Londo's rapid changes of heart and attitude. This is JMS's Macbeth
character. He has chosen his dark and bloody path and it is lonely.
11/ The sheer complexity of the characters of Londo and G'Kar.
12/ Garibaldi's attitude towards Londo when he came back on board B5.
13/ The feelings I had when the show was over and I started to talk
about it here on the net. Gladdened and yet saddened at the same time.
Jeannette
_______________________________
Jeannette Simpson faa25@dial.pipex.com
*****
If there ever was any doubt in my mind that B5 was the best SF show on
TV (ever --- and I include my favourite STTNG in this!) all that was
cast aside last night as I watched ---- no, I think "participated in"
is a better phrase. More later -- the Long Twilight Struggle.
I can't say too much, cos I wouldn't want to ruin it for our US friends,
but I am AWESTRUCK, to say the least! As Stephen Browett wrote yesterday,
it makes you want to go into work and tell everyone who doesn't watch
the show what fools they are, what they're missing out on.
When the episode had finished, I found it hard to move from my bed (I
watch TV in my bedroom) for quite a time. As G'Kar once said (I think)
"We are poised on the brink". Well, I feel that we are all poised on
the brink of some incredible revelations which will herald a fantastic
third season, and I honestly don't know how I'm going to get through
the next week, waiting for the penultimate episode. I feel like I should
be dressed in ceremonial robes, or something.
A strange feeling descended over me as I watched the show. It was as if
the outside world faded away and was forgotten, a far off thing, and only
the drama playing out on the screen in front of me was real. It's rare
for a writer to achieve this sort of almost out-of-body-experience, and
I feel privileged to have been a part of this.
JMS, you are a writer in a million, and I envy you enormously. But I
admire, respect and love you for giving us such a phenomenon as Babylon 5,
and such an incredible episode as The Long Twilight Struggle.
How can you top it???
I look forward to finding out!! :)
In years to come, this will be seen as a focal point of 20th (and 21st?)
century TV!
Slainte!
Lestat.
*****
In article <3vovuv$3lh@gate2.internet-eireann.ie>
deryck@internet-eireann.ie "Lestat" writes:
[Comments on what a great and moving episode TLTS was]
Agreed. It was, in parts, almost too painful to keep watching. Around
3/4 of the way through I found myself thinking of the line from LOTR :
'You and I, Sam, are still stuck in the worst places of the story, and it
is all too likely that some will say at this point: "Shut the book now,
dad; we don't want to read any more." '
Very well done, Mr Straczynski.
******
You know, there comes a time when words really do fail you. TLTS isn't poetry -
it's better than that.
It's quite strange. Up until a few months ago, I'd *never* sat on the edge of my
seat during a TV show. Then came 'In the Shadows of Za'Ha'Dum' - I practically
fell off the sofa. Within the past fortnight, we've been treated to two of the
most gob-smacking episodes of B5 to date. 'Divided Loyalties' kept me enthralled
to the very end (the 'revelation' scene hits you quite fast). And then there's
'The Long Twilight Struggle'.
Well, it's just beautiful. Wonderful perfomances from Peter and (especially)
Andreas; G'Kar's speech brought a lump to my throat. And 'that shot' of Londo
says it all. Gorgeous CGI.
The line has definitely been drawn... and a few people are likely to be shoved
over it. All this and we've still got the season finale to come. I'm almost too
scared to look.
*****
This is one of the more delicate areas in viewer/producer interaction
here on the nets. On one side, if you say, "Yeah, we fought the studios,
the networks, nobody tells us how to do our show," and viewers respond with
enthusiasm, then another viewer has a suggestion, and you don't take it,
suddenly it has the potential to come off like a snub. Yes, on one level,
shows don't exist without fans. Shows also don't exist without networks
and studios to finance and produce them. There are two masters at work
here.
My take on this is very simple: nothing good has been done by
committee since the pyramids and Stonehenge. The bigger the committee,
the more watered-down or diffuse the final result. B5 viewers, as cute a
bunch as they might be, basicallyk constitute the largest committee on
record.
If somebody finds a glitch in the show, points out an error, asks a
good leading question, I (or frankly any reasonable producer) would be a
fool to ignore it. But you've got to know your own mind, and what it is
you want to do with your show, and be absolutely, totally committed to
following your inclinations and your instincts, or very shortly you'll end
up wandering in the wilderness beyond hope of recall.
jms
******
"If what's coming is truly nifty, then what do you call what you've
shot so far?"
The stuff we did yesterday.
Never look back.
jms
******
Without spoiling anything...yes, in this regard, I've always noted
that there are some echoes of WW II in the overall storyline, and some
applies here. Also, again, the purpose of a large measure of the show is
to elicit discussion of such issues as this...where are the mora,
(moral) responsibilities in such a situation? What are the ethics of
mass warfare? Where does expediency begin and compassion end? *Should*
compassion have to end for the greater good?
If we can start some bar fights, I'll have done my job.
Fact is, I don't have one single damned good answer. But I've got a
whole LOTTA questions....
jms
******
Let me just start off by disagreeing with your thesis, that the
length restrictions and format of TV writing tend to mitigate against good
writing. By that same token, sonnets (which use a very strict formula or
format) can't be good, or haiku, we should toss out iambic pentameter
altogether, and short stories, often considerably shorter than a half-hour
TV script, must also be unable to contain quality writing.
The form doesn't matter. It's what you bring to the table.
Similarly, the issue of rushed writing...many of the classic SF tales
of the 50s and 60s were written as fast as humanly possible because back
then writers were paid a penny a word, and you had to really crank the
stuff out there to make any kind of living. It was quite common for writers
of many of the SF magazines of the time to go into the publisher's office,
see the cover for an issue a few months down the road, and on the spot come
up with a title, a story premise, go home, write it, and bring it in the
very next day.
We're talking here margins. Margins aren't important. It's what you
choose to fill the margins, the care you exercise, the passion you bring to
the page, that makes the difference.
Yeah, a lot of TV writing is pretty marginal. Sturgeon's Law: 90% of
everything is crap. How many novels are turned out each year that sink of
their own weight in zero time? How few novels are really and truly
substantial? How many short stories? Out of all the SF novels and short
stories and short-shorts and novellas and novellettes published each year,
how many will survive on the shelf 5, 10, or 15 years from now?
Mark Twain said, "If you would have your fiction live forever, you
must neither overtly preach nor overtly teach; but you must *covertly*
preach and *covertly* teach." That, to me, is one primary ingredient; it
must, at its root, be *about* something more than car chases and bomb
blasts and shootouts. On some level, however cellular, it must instruct
and ennoble and elevate and enrich, make us question or consider.
Then there is the basic level of writing style, but that is a very
personal flavor. Hill Street had an elegance of simplicity, the writing
was often raw and piercing on a sheer gut level. I loved it. When I sit
down to write, I tend to drift toward a somewhat more literary-sounding or
theatrical style, probably because of my own influences.
It comes down, really, to whether or not you have the inclination to
sit down, whichever style you use, and stare at the screen for half an
hour until you find just the right word, the mot just, that serves better
than any other possibly could. Some writers will do that, some won't.
David Kelly does it on ER and Picket Fences and other shows. So do the
folks on The Simpsons. And many other shows. A lot of folks dump on TV,
ignoring similar failinlgs in literary SF or other genres, but like any
exercise in accepted cliche, the reasoning is flawed and often (though
not always) unjustified.
As for my personal list of writers whose work I admire...Kelly, as
noted, definitely. Mainly, though, I grew up on the genre TV writers of
the 50s/60s, like Rod Serling, Charles Beaumond, Richard Matheson, Robert
Bloch (that should be BeaumonT, not Beaumond), Ernest Kinoy, Harlan
Ellison, Joe Stefano, and though he was fading from view by then, Arch
Oboler, and the kinetoscopes of Paddy Chayefsky, Reginald Rose and others.
Later, I added Norman Corwin to the list, as a chief point of inspiration,
stylistically. (There are a number of writers who call or consider
themselves "Norman's Kids" in that we've learned much about writing, and
the integrity of writing, from Norman Corwin...including Ray Bradbury,
Charles Kuralt, Walter Cronkite, Stan Freberg, and many others.)
jms
*****
I've been browsing the GEnie archives on the Web and came across a
piece of information you gave out in the very early days before the
pilot episode went into production. I hope you don't mind me quoting
it here.
You said:
Wed Jan 01, 1992
"I've been trying to come up with a very off-beat plot turn to
pull in seasons 3 or 4 (assuming we ever GET that far, again, I'm
working all this out in advance and hoping for the best), and this
morning I came up with something SO neat, SO unusual, I practically
slipped in the shower. It's something that has never, EVER been done
in an SF series involving a major character. And boy, will this have
major ramifications! Too bad I have to wait so long to pull it off."
Can I ask if this is still on line?
Jeannette
jms replies:
That turn is coming.
jms
*****
A lot of people (myself included) are lamenting about what has been poor
coverage so far of "Babylon-5" in the media. Call it what you want: a
media that can't understand anything new, a bias for 'Star Trek',
whatever. I don't understand it myself. After all, B-5 is THE most
original and innovative show to be on television in a very long time, and
JMS should be very proud of what he and his talented staff has
accomplished.
But still, why is 'B-5' being given the snub by the media in this
country? I understand this show is very well received in the United
Kingdom, and there they are not even comparing this to Trek. B-5 falls
into that rare class of shows that actually draws people to watch who
don't ordinarily watch television (I have NEVER followed a show as much
as 'Babylon-5'!) Fans of this drama are something of a small elite.
Fortunately, I don't believe this will forever be the case. Remember,
when "The Lord Of The Rings" first came out, it was fully TEN YEARS
before it achieved the level of fame it has come to acquire. At first
the only fans of TLOTR were a small group of people who held this
masterpiece in very high regard even though it had likewise been snubbed
as being merely 'fantasy'. Today, you can hardly find a book store that
doesn't have at least one paperback "Fellowship Of The Ring" in it.
The point of it is: "The Lord Of The Rings" took time to become a
classic. Likewise, in another ten years, "Babylon-5" will be seen as a
true classic as well. And when that happens, we the long-time fans will
be able to smile at our friends who will have only then become able to
discover the magic of this remarkable show.
"Babylon-5" has all the potential to supplant "Star Trek" as the
predominant science-fiction television series of our culture. Just give
it time...
*****
Every show is on deadline, to one extent or another. As for the
rest....
It's hard to say. I know that my style has changed somewhat since
B5 began, and the approach I take *to* the writing has changed a bit, but
it's a very hard thing to put into words. It's like learning a new
little trick during sex...you're not quite sure where it came from, it's
still the same concept, but something about it works a little better for
you.
In one way, because it's my own show, I'm no longer having to yoke
myself to somebody else's conception. Whenever you're working for a
writer/producer above you, a certain measure of your time is spent in
second-guessing, however much you may also be trying to expand that
character at the same time. "
"Okay, I'm going to go this far, but I know if I go *too* far, the
guy's gonna lean on me, say the character wouldn't do that, and I'll have
to go back and restructure."
So that problem doesn't exist for me now. In some ways, it's given
me greater latitude and confidence, but at the same time it's caused me to
be *much* more intensely critical in examining my own work. I know that
creatively, I'm pretty much out on my own here, and if I don't take great
care to be sure that the work is up to par, there's nobody to backstop it
above me. "With great power comes great responsibility." Peter Parker.
Probably the main thing that's happened is that I've grown slowly
comfortable enough with things to begin taking real chances; doing scenes
without any dialogue whatsoever (the Emperor's fall in "Coming," certain
long segments of "Twilight"), and some fairly intense monologues; it's let
me be free enough to do some radical stuff visually, to stretch to the
limits of what I think I can do.
What happens, if you're a writer who cares about your work, is that
you write along at one level for a certain amount of time, you hit a
plateau, this is as good as you are...but you keep poking at the edges,
and after a while you get frustrated, because your reach is exceeding your
grasp, and you know this should be *better* than it is, but you don't quite
know why, or where, you can't conceptualize it...then suddenly you break
through the ceiling, to another level, and your writing changes from that
point on...until the next time.
I'm very aware of having gone through several of those since starting
the B5 series.
jms
*****
The script never technically leaves my hands. Once the final draft
is written, it's given to every department, which breaks it down in terms
of set, extra, day-player, EFX, music, sound and other requirements. We
have visual effects, art department and other meetings to go over what's
in the script and make sure we all understand what's required. Any new
designs for prosthetics, costumes, EFX, ships, or other episode-specific
elements are drafted, and shown to me for approval.
The script department breaks down the script in terms of shooting
schedule, timing of scenes, and arranges a production board indicating
which scenes will be shot on which days (Based on which sets are being
used; you don't shoot in sequence...you do all the C&C scenes done on day
1, then move into the Zocalo for all those scenes, and so on.)
The director and I have a tone meeting to go over the script page by
page. At this time, the director sometimes suggests changes in locales
for production purposes, though this often happens earlier in the process.
I make sure we both understand what each scene is about, context and
subtext. Then there's a production meeting of all departments, where we
all go through one last time and break down each scene of the script by
what's required.
The director then takes the script to the stage, and shoots what's
written. Dailies arrive each day thereafter, and go to post production,
where an editor does a preliminary assembly of the episode. If the
episode appears to be coming in long, we have the option of trimming a
scene here or there in shooting...or expanding if it's coming in short.
After 7 days of shooting, the raw film is complete, and the editor
gives the director his assembly. The director then comes in and takes
about 3-4 days making his or her cut. The director's cut then goes to
me, and John Copeland and I go in to make the producer's cut, often
re-editing every single frame, though sometimes less, depending on many
different factors. This is done on computers, the Avid.
This final edit is then used to assemble the actual film (we take the
Avid computer disk and turn it over to a supercomputer which assembles the
film overnight). Using this online copy, I now sit down with the composer,
and sound people, and watch it again, going through it and noting where
sound effects and music are required, and what kind I have in mind. "In
at 03:13:18 (three minutes, 13 seconds, 18 frames), out at 04:14:22. I'd
like something soft, strings mainly, underscoring that doesn't get in the
way...with a tone change at 04:05:13, into the action, and since we've got
a lot of combat going on there, we need you to clear out the low-end for
the battle stuff."
Composer and sound EFX people then do their thing, and a couple weeks
later, we do the audio mix. (During this time, Ron and company have
delivered the last of their CGI.) At the audio mix, all of the final
elements are inserted/layered in, including any last-minute looping or
dubbing. This done, the episode is delivered to PTEN about 5 days later.
Total time to complete an episode (after the last day of filming per
se): 52 days.
jms
*****
"So why do you rush your work out the door?" I don't. The script
takes the amount of time needed to get it right. Sometimes I take 7-10
days to write a script. Sometimes I do it in just a couple of days; and
often, the 2-3 days jobs are actually better because it's done in white
heat, with the image clearest in my mind.
In television, you can't take 6-8 weeks or even 2 weeks to turn in a
script; it's got to be done on a schedule; remember, you're using up one
script every 7 days, and you have to have scripts in hand 3 in advance
minimum for proper prep work.
"I find input from my writing group to be very helpful." I don't.
I've been writing professionally for 23 years now (started at 17), full
time for the last 17. I know what I want to say, and how I want to say
it. Does a sculpter go to a sculpting group and say, "Y'know, I think I
see a horse in this bit of clay, but I'm not sure, what do the rest of
you think?" An artist follows the dream or the vision that is in his or
her head. There's this notion that writing is somehow different; it ain't.
Nothing decent has been done by committee since Stonehenge and the
pyramids.
jms
*****
The group critiquing process may be, and likely is, useful when one
is an art major or learning to write or draw.
Then you have to leave that nest and fly on your own. The whole
PURPOSE of workshops and critiquing should be to help you find your own
voice (for a writer) or your own eye and style (if an artist). It should
help you make the work more muscular, and less artificial...peeling away
the layers until just the individual stands there, saying *exactly* what
he wants to say. The group isn't there to make you write like the group,
or please the group; it's there as a means of finding your own voice.
Once you've found it, you have to walk away. Otherwise the whole
endeavor has been for nothing.
Back in college, I took two writing workshops led by Richard Kim, a
transplanted Korean novelist, very well regarded. I learned a *hell* of a
lot. I signed up for a third semester. Now, mind, I liked the class,
we liked each other, it was good. FIrst day of class, he looked out,s aw
me, and said, "Go. You've learned all you can learn. Don't take any more
workshops, from me or anybody else here. You have the tools, now find your
voice. If you stay here, you'll risk losing it." At the time, I felt
as though it were a rejection, but over time I began to understand what he
was talking about.
jms
******
There has always been a certain element of Jungian archetypes in the show, both in the shadows and elsewhere. (Comes from having a degree in clinical psych, I suppose.) There's a *lot* of thematic/symbolic stuff going on in the show, actually....
jms
*****
How do you get a shot of Morden's head on a pike past the censors?
Easy.
You frame the shot so the head is draped...in shadows.
If I were to be planning such a thing, of course....
jms
*****
Re: things you don't expect to happen...that's kind of one aspect I was after here. By way of comparison....
There's one great thing about The Shining, despite some other flaws in the film: they set up Scatman Cruthers (sp?) as the one guy who understands what's going on...he gets the Shining, he's a potentially heroic character, and when all hell breaks loose, he's the one to get into the snow plow, cross terrible weather, we're all sure he's going to get there and fight the menace...he overcomes weather and nonsense to get there...he blows through the front door, ready for action....and gets an axe in the middle of his chest and dies.
I *loved* that, and always kinda wanted to something of that nature, where you set someone up to be that kind of character, the future, whatever, then you yank it back and let the audience say, Oh, hell, NOW what?
jms
*****
Remember, Kosh was the one who sent those images into Sheridan's brain, not anybody else; he was communicating useful information that may come up down the road, but in rather symbological form.
jms
******
In the B5 universe, as a general rule of thumb, people don't just come back after something like this. "Talia" has been destroyed permanently; that's what it said in the episode, and that's the way it'll stay.
jms
*****
One thing you have to remember is that while Talia is in the opening credits, to Psi Corps she's just one more of many programmed individuals in various places. The character in "Spider" was a highly valued infiltration unit, with very expensive "parts." Of the two, Talia would've been far more expendable. And I don't recall that Control actually issued any death order; it was the Psi Corps/B13 in any event.
jms
******
There is a growing diversification in the names and personnel to whom letters are being sent via the B5 mail drop (which is not the main studio address). Consequently, it is important to be absolutely sure to include the words C/O BABYLON 5 on any mail you send cast or crew at this address: 14431 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 260, Sherman Oaks, CA 91423. Otherwise it may end up being returned.
jms
******
"Joe, you do not disappoint."
I'm trying *awful* hard not to. Doing this show right is terribly important to all of us involved in it. I really want it to be the kind of show I've always wanted to watch as a fan. And I'm very, very pleased that the writing is generally satisfactory. Sometimes, when behind the keyboard, one has grave doubts if it's good enough....
jms
*****
"By the way, your dedication and commitment to your audience is the coolest thing I have ever seen come from the makers of a series, sci-fi or otherwise. You have no idea how much we appreciate it!"
Thanks. I guess, really, it's just having been a fan, and still being a fan in many ways, I just figure fans should be treated the way I would've liked to have been treated by folks in TeeVee. It's really as much my pleasure as anyone else's.
jms
*****
Yeah, Chris tends to get the lion's share of the credit for being online, though I've been here since 1984/85, but that's okay; it's the principle that matters.
I'm glad it's helped to demystify TV, because that's been one of my goals from the very start. You can't hope to influence or control something until you understand it.
jms
*****
8/6/95 Cis
Let me address the small points first, then go into the major thesis.
What keeps B5 from becoming a "cult" series if it runs only its five years? I dunno...lots of shows run only 5 years or less. The majority of them, in fact. I'd also point out that in the moderately-hard SF area -- space stuff, star travel and the like -- no show has EVER gone five years except Star Trek. Even Lost in Space went only 3 years (September 1965 to September 1968). Prior to the new incarnations of ST, the original series ALSO didn't make it past 3 years.
So if you really *want* to look at the only non-Star Trek spacefaring SF series to go (hopefully) five years in, oh, the entire HISTORY of American television and minimize that by calling it a "cult" series, well, that's certainly your right. I don't agree with it, but one wouldn't expect me to.
Twin Peaks, which only went about 2, max 3 seasons, is a short enough run to be justifiably called a "cult" show. Five seasons is a credible series in *anyone's* book. Right now, at just shy of year two, we're still a cult series. By year five we would not be; we'd be in the same ranks as any successful TV series, and success is defined as 90-100 episodes in the can, enough to syndicate thereafter. So right from the git-go, the term being used, "cult series," doesn't apply, I think. It's no more a cult series than any mainstream series that goes 5 seasons. (Hill Street Blues just *barely* made it to six years.)
Blake's 7 is a UK series, and to American audiences, that usually becomes "cult" by definition. And, again, B7 ran only 4 years, from January 1978 - December 1981. Dr. Who, though gifted with a 20+ year run, is also not much known in the US, and thus comes under a "cult" show heading by that default. (Because part of the definition of cult show is not a numerical issue, as you seem to advance, but a philosophical issue, the extent to which the society at large knows about the show, or elements of that show.)
But to continue using your terminology for a moment...Space 1999, which you cite, ran only from 1975-1977, three years again, which once more does not allow for any real momentum to be built up in making the general populace aware of it. Quantum Leap made 5 years, but since we're talking space-SF at the moment, and it's really more of an anthology series with recurring characters, that goes into a separate category for now.
If this show goes the full five years -- and it will -- it will become the only non-Star Trek space series to do so in the history of American TV. That is a *huge* accomplishment. Will it become widely known and accepted by the American consciousness, mainstreamed like ST, so that Jay Leno can comment on Klingons and everybody in the audience knows what he's talking about? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really matter to me one way or another. The show will be there. A painting is no less a painting for the number of people who pass in front of it. It is what it is.
I could probably help matters a bit by going more for merchandising, put in some scantily-clad women, doing a lot of stunts...but I've said from the start, I'm not here to try and make a franchise, I'm here to tell a story. Some folks will like it, some won't. Them's the breaks.
So the thesis of your panel, in some measure, seems to be, If B5 does not become as well known as ST, is it ultimately successful or important in American culture? To me, this is inherently flawed reasoning. ST is only the measure of ST, and nothing else. I'd even argue that except for the original series, there really isn't any one thing called Star Trek. There was the 3 season show that Gene did in the late 60s; there was the first movie Gene did in the late 1970s; the other movies that were done by other people, like Nick Meyer and Harve Bennet; the TNG series that was created by Gene and David Gerrold; the DS9 that was created by Berman/Pillar; and the ST:V created by Piller, Berman and Taylor.
They are all, in many ways, very different creations, that share only one thing: the brand name. If you renamed B5, STAR TREK: BABYLON 5, the ratings would go up instantly, and it would become more of a household name than it is. It would be no different a show, but it would have that brand name behind it.
"What keeps Trek from falling into the "cult" classification is the ongoing production." Negative. To play one side of the coin for a moment, the second most of the population knows or recognizes the word "Klingon," it has stopped being a cult show, *on a philosophical level*. And that happened long before TNG ever went into production. That happened over the 20 years the original three-season ST was in syndication.
To play the other side of it...I hate to break it to you, but media SF is STILL considered a "cult" area, by critics, by networks, by the press, by most of the population. A very small portion of viewers watch SF, including ST. It may seem to you otherwise, because as SF fans we're nominally in the fishbowl, but it's true. In syndication, you need far fewer ratings points to survive. Overall, neither TNG nor DS9 got anywhere near decent network ratings, though there were a few times in TNG's history -- the pilot and a couple others -- where it approached that. Put onto a network series list, they would both be where ST:V is right now...in the cellar.
So, overall, I think the entire thesis of the panel is flawed, and proceeds from the trap of accepted cliche, misinformation and fuzzy thinking that has little to do with the realities of TV and culture.
Now to the main point of *my* thesis here.
I'm frankly tired as hell of "ST vs. B5" or "ST/B5" panels, however they're couched. They are separate shows, they have nothing to do with one another, they're as different as night and day, and the only reason to put them into the same panel is to start a fracas or take a philosophical position by defined contrariness. And, fundamentally, it continues to put ST at the center of the universe. We're going on our third season now, and things look good for seasons thereafter. We've carved out our own identity. Why can't we be taken or discussed on our own? Why does there always have to be this nutty feud?
Are you going to be doing ST/Quantum Leap panels? Will there be any X-Files/Star Trek panels? No, because they're nothing like Star Trek, AND NEITHER ARE WE. Yet everywhere we go, ST follows us around like Marley's Ghost, rattling its chains and dominating the conversation.
"Can Babylon 5 replace Trek as THE icon of SF?...without a continued run." First off, THE icon to whom? To core ST viewers? Of course not. To core B5 viewers? In many cases, it already has. You equate numbers of episodes to quality of episodes. Many SF writers have written MORE novels than Robert Heinlein...but how many have written them BETTER? And which is more an icon of SF? Who is this person who decides what a media or print SF *ICON* is?
The Oxford American Dictionary defines "icon" as, "a painting or mosaic of a sacred person, *itself* regarded as sacred." If that's the Pointy Hat under discussion, I'd rather pass, all things considered. I don't WANT this show to become an ICON. I want to tell this story, about these people. You can't sit there worrying if it's going to become a Huge Eternal Monster, or some revered icon, or anything that comes after the fact. That way lies madness. You can only concentrate on telling the story, and making the program, as best you can. If the audience finds you, and likes it, you get to stay on the air and finish your story; if not, you don't. That simple.
Nothing personal in this, btw, this isn't a flame, and I'm not annoyed, I'm just trying to answer the question honestly. And yes, the info you provided re: BB was most helpful.
jms
******
Understood. No healing needed; it wasn't directed at you as much as the topic.
I do understand your point; but I still don't think it's valid. If by cult you mean, as you say, "anyone who is a fan of something that is no more," not being produced, then EVERY TV series ever produced, that is now no longer being produced, becomes a "cult" show. Again, that broadens the definition to the point where it's essentially meaningless. Specificity In Language Is Our Friend.
The other point that I forgot to bring up in an already overlong reply was this: you ask, can B5 "become the mainstream reference to SF?" For starters, it shouldn't, because then, for the mainstream SF = B5, and I don't think that's correct. The whole point of the exercise is to broaden out and encourage MORE SF on the air. What is the mainstream reference for cop shows? Is it CANNON? HILL ST. BLUES? NYPD BLUE? DRAGNET? There are so many of them, there isn't one clear point of reference. That is the goal with SF, to get people to understand that there isn't any one thing that is a reference point to SF.
What would it be in literature? Heinlein? Asimov? Clark? Ellison? Ashton-Smith? Russell? Simak? Bradbury? Anybody who says that Writer X is THE reference point in SF would be laughed out of the room. The only reason that ST has kind of "been" that by default is that there hasn't been much ELSE in 30 years that's been even moderately successful. Once that changes, you'll get to the *proper* definition of SF, as advanced by (I believe) Asimov, who said, "SF is whatever I point to when I say, 'That's SF.'"
(Which, by the way, is one of Paramount's greatest fears. Until now, they've had a lock on the genre, and ST has thus been special, and they're worried that if there are lots of space genre shows around, that ST won't be *special* anymore, and will have to compete on its own merits.)
The other thing to consider in all this is the cultural aspect. Will there ever be another Beatles? No. Because as well as their artistic contributions, the Beatles occupy a very special place in music history; they were nominally the first really big breakthrough for what we now consider modern rock. They were the biggest. They changed the field of rock forever, redefined it, gave it tools that did not exist before, gave it a measure of legitimacy it did not have before. Many other bands since have sold more records, but none will ever occupy that primary, pivotal position in our culture. There cannot be another Beatles, and you cannot define another group in that light, despite every six months somebody coming out and saying that X is "the new Beatles."
Ditto Star Trek. It is very much a product of its time, and it fills that same kind of pivotal role in SF television. It changed SF TV back in the 1960s, no mistake. It occupies a unique niche in American television that cannot be replicated. Which is why I've always run from reporters who ask if this is the next Star Trek, if I'm "the next Roddenberry," and the like, because there can't be either, any more than somebody is the next Beatles.
The fundamental problem is that after ST went off the air, nobody picked up the ball they'd created and ran with it. They chipped at the stereotype of SF, and broke some of it, but nobody followed through with another show. DRAGNET changed forever cop shows; prior to then, they were always considered low-ratings shows, of interest only to those who like police procedurals. For all its stiffness, DRAGNET showed cops with real lives, drinking problems, debts, marriages, dinners, dating...and in very short order, other shows followed suit. Had that not happened, cop shows that came 20 years later would've been compared with Dragnet, since that would be the only reference point. But it *did* happen with Dragnet...and it *didn't* happen with Star Trek.
The larger the possibilities, the less likely ANYthing is to be a "reference point." And that, to me, is the goal.
jms
******
What happened is...basically...Joe is a moron.
I did my research. I called up the info on the encyclopedia, got all the dates right, and my eyes saw East End and for whatever stupid, idiotic reason, my fingers typed West instead of East, and nobody, NObody, caught it until now. I'd loop it, but alas the line is on his face, and it'd look real stupid, and the delivery is *so* perfect as it is; if we looped it, we'd destroy it.
So I content myself with the notion that it's west...of B5.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shoot myself.
jms
*****
Why bring up Sebastian's past? Because it's integral to who he is now, and what he's doing, and why he's doing it. Also, there's something very important here about greying up the Vorlons a little; of all the people they could've chosen for this job, why THIS kind of person? It makes them a trifle more morally ambiguous, which is necessary.
jms
****
For some time, I've been cautioning people dealing in pirated material; videotapes, Links, PPGs, the whole gamut. The usual reaction from those involved is, basically, screw off, on the grounds that there's plenty of ST pirated stuff out there, and nobody does anything about it. Well, for starters, that's because there's a lot of grey about the copyright during the period during which ST wasn't being produced, and the copyright wasn't being enforced. Second...we're not ST. A mistake many pirates continue to make, to their detriment.
To the pirates out there, be warned: Warner Bros. is prosecuting these cases to the full extent of the law. Case in point: I saw bootleg copies of B5 episodes for sale at the Chicago ComicCon, confiscated them, and told the person selling them, David Scott, *not* to do this anymore, because if he did, we would come down on him...hard. His reaction was basically a shrug.
So this same person showed up at San Diego Comic Con, selling the same B5 tapes. WB was notified. And the FBI showed up and seized the material. And that of the other shows he was selling. He tried to make light of it at the time, nobody follows through on this stuff, after all. Wrong again. He has been prosecuted by Time Warner Entertainment, with charges filed in United States District Court (case number 92-1602 H POR), and there has already been a judgment rendered to the tune of *thousands* of dollars.
To the pirates out there: be warned. We're not kidding around. We will take you down, hard. Especially those selling the poor-quality videotapes, and those selling supposed "real props" from the series, which are simply cheap knockoffs with expensive price tags to separate fans from their money.
(And to the OTHER dealer in Chicago, who was selling fake PPGs and other items, from whom I confiscated the illegal goods, and has since been mouthing off to other dealers that in lawfully confiscating this material I "shoplifted" -- and I confiscated this stuff in front of several witnesses, and put the dealer on notice as to what I was doing -- by all means, continue running your mouth; you assiduously didn't have an address anywhere available, and your behavior will simply make it that much easier for us to find you.)
One of the reasons that I'm very careful on what we do and don't license is that I want them to be done *right* when they're done; as a fan, I've grown to despair over cheap knockoffs whose exorbitant price tags only feed the sharks that made them. I won't have inferior quality products out there, licensed or otherwise. We take great pains to make everything involved with this show of the highest quality, and will not allow anyone outside to hinder that effort.
jms
*****
Or one could say it's West of Babylon 5.
No, no, it's hopeless...I'll have to turn in my writer's card.
jms
*****
Okay, let me turn it around and put to you the question I had to work with in this episode. I needed a character who had taken the notion of a "holy cause" and gone to extremes, people died at his hands; his fate had to be a mystery, unresolved, so one could justify the idea that the Vorlons had taken him; it had to be someone not current, to avoid harming families who survived real, current killers; someone widely enough known to have coinage around the world; and someone visually striking. Someone who, as Delenn noted, approached the right idea (cleaning up Spittlefields) in the wrong way, and for the wrong reasons...also an egotist.
This led me to Jack as necessity, not just thrown in for effect. It came directly out of the needs of the story. So if you can find me someone else who fits those criteria, I'd love to hear it.
jms
******
<Your analysis is *exactly* correct>
<There's an awful lot going on in this show, a great deal of it sub rosa, under the surface, implied in gestures or hesitations or looks, some implied, some stated outright>
'CiT' was an episode written and played on many levels. The more effort you put into watching it the more understanding and enjoyment you get out of it. I find its the same with many episodes of B5, but I think 'Inquisitor' managed it best.
<Also, check Sebastian's reaction when he asks Delenn what if she's wrong, "have you ever considered that? HAVE YOU?"
She responds, softly, "....yes."
Look at his face when she says this. It rattles him. It's not the answer he expected, but more important, it's not the answer he wanted, needed to hear. He needed to hear her say that she had never had the slightest *scintilla* of doubt, that as he had been, she was a True Believer, a fanatic, incapable of doubt of mistake...and thus doomed to failure. He can't even meet her gaze; he turns, looks away, and suggests an "intermission" that is more for his benefit than hers.>
Yes, this was another facet of the show that struck me. The depth of Sebastian's character is far than many stories manage to reach in even their primary characters, and it was magical to watch.
A further example of the depth of the writing was when Delenn offered to die in Sheridan's place. As soon as she did this I thought "*%$&! She's just admitted she can die, that maybe she isn't destined! Thats a niche in her armour that Sebastian could use to break her." But then I thought "Nah, how often is a show written that goes that deep." 5 seconds later, Sebastian jumps on this very point. Utterly fantastic. My apologies for doubting you, Joe.
Chris Gardiner
*****
Your analysis is *exactly* correct.
Also, check Sebastian's reaction when he asks Delenn what if she's wrong, "have you ever considered that? HAVE YOU?"
She responds, softly, "....yes."
Look at his face when she says this. It rattles him. It's not the answer he expected, but more important, it's not the answer he wanted, needed to hear. He needed to hear her say that she had never had the slightest *scintilla* of doubt, that as he had been, she was a True Believer, a fanatic, incapable of doubt of mistake...and thus doomed to failure. He can't even meet her gaze; he turns, looks away, and suggests an "intermission" that is more for his benefit than hers.
There's an awful lot going on in this show, a great deal of it sub rosa, under the surface, implied in gestures or hesitations or looks, some implied, some stated outright. He *hates* the memory of Jack; it's not his name, the one thing that is his...remember, he is caught up with "who ARE you?" and his answer to that is lost in the persona created by history...his true name, is what's totally forgotten to history.
jms
*****
I disagree.
Everything Joe does he does for a reason. And because he's such a good storyteller, everything one of his characters does or says does it because *at that time, in that place, in that situation, that character would behave in that manner*.
For the 1st time in 400 years Sebastian had been proved wrong in his new cause. His entire life had just been torn down because not only was he wrong about his own calling but the fact that there are people out there who *do* have a calling renders him even more worthless. Finding out that his initial calling (the murders) was a product of his own mind would have severely shaken his depest beliefs. In order to salvage what he could he would have grabbed on to anything. In this case it was his task as Inquisitor. This allowed him to regain some self-esteem by proving, time and time again, that while he had no calling NEITHER DID ANYONE ELSE.
When he found that Delenn and Sheridan were destined, then, he had lost the last reason of his life, everything he was meant nothing. This was the reason for the speech on why no-one remembered him (at least as he had intended to be remembered).
His parting shot of "remembered only...as Jack" Was partly aimed at hurting Sheridan (who Jack would now resent, and what would annoy Sheridan more than having to let a murderer go free?) and partly because the label 'Jack' that he is now referred to by carries with it (to those who hear it) memories of a mad and evil man, and nothing of the 'reason' behind Jacks actions (which is, after all, why he did what he did). Sebastian would hate the name Jack, and this emotion was put across very effectively by Wayne Alexander in that last word.
If he had said "remembered only...as Jack the Ripper" It would have been pandering to stupidity, but he didn't, so it wasn't.
Chris Gardiner
*****
Yes, I have a voice like five thousand moths dying simultaneously in a very large bowl of tea.
jms
*****
Depends on how you define knockoffs. If she walked into a store and found xeroxed copies of her book for sale, that's absolute, blatant copyright infringement, and can be confiscated. This is a similar situation. But you don't just "fill your bag with the offending items and depart." You go directly to the person running it, show them the item, and tell them exactly what you are doing, why you are doing it, what law they have broken, and that you are confiscating this illegal material.
If they make a fuss over it, then what you do is to go find the nearest security person or police officer, put them into contact with the WB Legal Affairs office, and they will fax a note authorizing the police to not only confiscate the material, but to seize any *related* material, AND to press both civil and criminal charges against the person. If that means bringing the FBI in, so be it. They have a whole division specifically to protect tv and film product against copyright infringement, particularly video pirates.
So it's in the best interests of the person at the dealer's table to cooperate. I'm fully authorized to do this, and they don't have a legal leg to stand on, and they know it. So it's best to just warn them, and take it, and hope they stop. They get one chance to do it right. After that....
If they choose to turn cranky, well, that's their perogative, and I won't carry anything out...I'll just have their butt arrested, charged, and fined.
jms
******
It gets lonely in space. REAL lonely. But hey, how lucky do you expect a guy to be when he hangs a picture of Daffy Duck over his bed?
Let's face it, the folks inhabiting B5 aren't exactly well- adjusted. Most of them couldn't get a date if the fate of the galaxy depended on it. (Which, apparently, it does.) So to pass the time, they hang out in the local taverns in the Zocalo and take their best shot.
In our neverending effort to bring you all you want to know about B5, we spent considerable time in those establishments and put together ...
THE TOP TEN PICKUP LINES
IN A BABYLON 5 BAR
10. Is that a na'ka'leen feeder in your pocket, or are you just happy
to see me?
9. I don't like to talk about it, but a Minbari soul dwells within
me.
8. Once you've had a Narn, you'll never go back.
7. You *are* going to resist, aren't you?
6. So which half is human and which half is Minbari?
5. Come to my place, and I'll show you my second favorite thing in
the universe.
4. Why yes, I *do* direct movies for ISN.
3. Want to try this? It's either an aphrodesiac or a floor wax.
2. It *is* true what they say about we Vorlons being ... gifted.
AND THE #1 PICKUP LINE IN A BABYLON 5 BAR:
1. What do you want?
Stephen
*****
They believe in a variety of afterlives; the god you worship, of the centauri pantheon, holds dominion over a given "heaven" or afterworld. If you appease the god sufficiently during life, it will accept you into that afterworld, in preparation for the day when all heavens are united; if not, you will have to be reborn and choose another until one accepts you.
jms
*****
Yeah, that seems to be the tendency; each time we've introduced someone, it's gotten hammered...nobody liked Ivanova in the beginning, they said she was nothing but an ice maiden...they made fun of Vir, said he was nothing more than comic relief, ridiculous, had no business being assigned to Londo...there were grave doubts about Londo and the hair...Sinclair got hammered in the beginning...Sheridan got hammered in the beginning...and each time people assumed that what the character seemed to be at the start was all the person would ever be. Even when it was shown that other characters grew into something other, still it was hard for a lot of folks to assume that this new character would do the same, and become interesting over time.
jms
*****
Since "The Fall of Night" has now aired in the UK, and word is getting out, herewith a post I left on GEnie about Kosh's now-revealed identity. I thought it came out fairly well, so I'm repeating it here.
*****
Okay. Here it is. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna reveal Kosh.
I'm not kidding. Bail now if you're looking in and don't want to know.
No backsies.
I mean it.
Last chance.
Okay, this is it.
"If he leaves his encounter suit, he will be recognized." "By who?" "Everyone."
"The First Ones taught the younger races, explored beyond the rim, built civilizations...."
Kosh is what you're pointing at when you say "That's Kosh."
"Yes, the Vorlons have been to Earth, the Vorlons have been everywhere. The Vorlons *are*."
They *are*.
"For centuries, the Vorlons have helped the younger races, guiding us, and --" "And manipulating us?" "It is, as you say, a matter...of perspective."
They *are*...a matter of perspective.
Each race who sees them, sees something out of their own past, their own legends, religions, faiths. A being of light, if you will, but a Drazi sees the Drazi version of that, Droshalla; the Minbari see the Minbari version of that, Valeria; humans see a human version of that.
It is the mirror in which we see our beliefs reflected, but is it the progenitor of those beliefs...or an implanted image that overlays that vision on top of the true form of the Vorlon? Is it revelation, or is it manipulation?
The Vorlons are a cypher. The Vorlons are a matter of perspective. The Vorlons are guides...or users, emissaries or puppeteers, who wish to be seen a certain way, so that we will react properly.
Is this good, or is this bad?
And the truth is, even though you have seen a Vorlon, have you seen THE Vorlon, the one behind the image that dances somewhere between your optic nerve and your brain?
Or to quote a message I left long ago, paraphrased from memory, "The hand Sinclair sees is not the hand Sinclair sees, and the hand Sinclair sees is not the same hand someone else in the room sees, and is not even the hand that that person sees."
The Vorlons Are.
jms
*****
>> Corridor
A female C&C op is going to snitch ! :-( <<
It's the pilot who got Keffer at the start, Delta 7. She ISN'T wearing a Nightwatch brassard.
>> Star furies are scrambled to suround the Centauri. <<
The Furies actually surround and then escort the Narn cruiser. When fire is opened Keffer detaches half his ships to assist B5.
Notes on the battle:
Both sides escalate step by step, Sheridan orders Ivanova to deploy the defence grid, the Centauri open their gunports and target B5, the Furies and the Narn, B5 returns the complement by targetting the Centauri BC and giving Keffer return fire rules of engagement. Sheridan orders the blast doors closed as the noise/frequency of the Centauri sensor system (presumably an audio feed from B5 ESM systems) increases. The C&C operator reports a power spike on the Centauri ship and it opens fire.
The Centauri ship engages both targets simultaneously, implying at least two primary weapons batteries, rate of fire is very high. The weapon appears to be the standard ship mounted plasma weapon seen so far. B5 replies with the interceptor part of the defence grid, four-barrelled energy weapons, presumably also a plasma weapon. These are quite capable of stopping an individual plasma bolt, but the high rate of fire from the Centauri ship causes the system to overheat and loose efficiency. The Narn ship does not fire during the battle and at least one escorting Fury is hit and damaged.
B5 is hit as the interceptor system overloads. A plasma-bolt stream hits and severs the starboard jaw of the docking system. Sheridan decides enough is enough and orders a time on target salvo (implying everything should reach the Centauri ship at the same time, overwhelming its point defence systems). The other two weapon systems in the defense grid now come into action: a second four-barrelled weapon, drum-fed from two magazines - I'd assume this is a gauss weapon, and what appears to be a starship calibre plasma gun, with a muzzle apparently as big across as each of the other two entire weapon mounts. The interceptors are also shown firing, possibly implying they have an offensive mode. As the salvo arrives at the Centauri BC (and for time on target it's pretty ragged) the Furies make firing passes, pivoting as they go to keep their weapons oriented on the BC and firing all the time. The BC suffers multiple hits from at least two B5 weapon systems and is subject to at least two passes by the Furies. She's left dead in space and blows up before B5 can launch any rescue shuttles.
Comments on the battle:
Someone forgot to hit the klaxon to warn the civilians.
The escalation was very like that reported between NATO and Russian ships when the Russians were in the mood for playing 'chicken'.
The new defence grid looks pretty capable, it just took down a capital ship, but only half that ship's weaponry was turned on B5 and the station still took fairly heavy damage.
No one remembered to call Draal for help. Perhaps Sheridan decided he didn't need it, the battle was also over very quickly.
>> Voice over by Ivanova. Basically it's a sort of extended version of what we're told the 3rd session intro will be. Things are going from bad to worse. <<
Ivanova is shown lighting her Menorah, the scene cuts to the Zocalo, where the shopkeeper Zack was bullied into informing on is seen been led away by B5 security with Nightwatch armbands, his shop is closed up and a notice fixed to the window 'Closed by MoP pending investigations for sedition'. Zack looks sick...
This last scene is powerful, Krystalnacht is coming.
David
*****
Actually, no, not really; Kosh is what you see when you look at him. And if a Drazi looks at him, the Drazi sees something different than a Minbari; yes, a being of light, BUT....
Is that what they actually ARE, or how they have programmed us to react when we see them? As Sheridan said, have we been *manipulated* to seeing them a certain way, seeing a certain image? We may not be seeing what they ARE, but what they WANT us to see.
It goes a heck of a lot deeper than what it seems.
jms
*****
It wasn't intended that Delenn should touch Draal; it sorta happened on the set, and no one really noticed, and it wasn't worth going back and reshooting the whole thing. My sense is that if it's like a virtual reality situation, she would "feel" it even though it's not there, if the image was impinging correctly on the brain.
But in either event, the image is not and should not be considered to be solid.
As for Londo's shot...the director called "cut" I think a bit too soon, we used every frame we had to extend that shot (and, in fact, we even went so far as to freeze the final frame and extend the shot by a smidge, if you look at it carefully). Nonetheless, I think it works pretty spiffily.
As for the mass drivers, the amount of energy required to move something that big would generate huge amounts of heat, possibly making them even white-hot, hence the glow.
Anyway, thanks for the comments; I do think it's possibly either the best, or one of the best shows to that point.
jms
*****
I just saw DL and TLTS...
First DL. Very disturbing episode on a number of levels. My first impression is that our heros are pretty damn cold. *They* fried Talia. There seemed to be no discussion whatever about the fact that they were essentially sentencing someone to death. This was the same as having a gun which would randomly kill one innocent person and reveal one traitor and they dropped the hammer without a second thought. This is *not* a criticism. I understand that they had little choice, *but* it is an interesting observation on the state of morality of the "good guys".
My only real issue is that I believe that the possibility of arranging an "accident" for Talia should have at least been discussed. They had the balls to kill their friend to save their own lives, they should have found the strength to carry it through to it's logical end. In my mind Talia 2 is a murderer who *will* kill again. She deserves death. I think that (in)decision will come back to haunt them.
Now on to TLTS. My god Joe...what can I say. The acting, the CGI, the photography...direct hit on all counts. The story is simply amazing, I can't stop watching it. Out of respect I am going to pick a very *few* nits. Normally I don't preface these sorts of comments, but I want you to understand that this episode is a 9.95 in my book. My comments are one technical and a couple aesthetic, but TLTS is so far beyond *anything* anyone is doing on television I want you to understand I am scoring B5 against B5 *no one* is even *close* to you.
First the technical point. Not really a criticism but a question. Delenn *touched* Drall. Was that image *solid*? How is that possible? ST does forcefields and "virtual matter" at the drop of a hat, but you *never* do, and have explicitly forbidden transporter like technology. If solid images can be projected, that makes "shields" possible. Have we seen these. Is that why the Shadows could just waltz through the energy mines? Shields bespeak a level of technology orders of magnitude more powerful than any we have seen thus far. Of course, if they exist,that is where one would expect to find them.
Now the aesthetic concerns. There are only two:
First. The scene aboard the Centauri Battleship was simply beyond description. I was awed by the power of the sequence, the music, and the architecture of the ship. The Centauri are very human in appearance and it is easy to mistake them for misplaced Florantine Dukes. The sequence made the Centauri ships look...alien...foreboding. It reminded me of something out of Dune. It was awesome. The best thing I have *ever* seen on B5, but, it could have been even better. It was about three seconds too short (in my opinion) and the music ended too abruptly. The driving somber tones of the Requiem for Narn *actually lilted up* at the transition from the scene. For me it totally destroyed the illusion *just as it ended*. I wish it had ended buuuuummmm buummmmm, with possibly a zoom into Londo's striken eye combined with a fade to black. Had it done that I probably wouldn't even remember what happened in the next scene.
Secondly, I am not sure Sheridan's final speech worked for me. I don't know why, but it struck me as a bit forced. Then again, It seemed better the second time around, so it may have been my digestion.
Oh, one last thing. I think Mass Drive sounds better with the stress on the word Mass rather than Driver.
I wasn't sure I liked the new Drall, until I viewed the episode again, then I decided I really liked him. He's a pain. He is also a pedant of the Old School.
One small technical question (if you gave this some thought, and I suspect you did). Why did the rocks glow when fired from the Mass Drivers? Were they simply stones or some sort of "doped" mass designed to penetrate the atmosphere with as little friction damage as possible?
One last political question. Did I hear correctly? The *Vorlon* protested the Centauri use of Mass Drivers? I though they "didn't concern themselves with the affairs of others" and thought the Narn and Centauri "were a dying people," and "we should let them pass." Would not the Centauri have been *greatly disturbed* to receive a protest from the Almighty Vorlon?
Oh yeah, since I haven't mentioned the Narn--Shadow battle. Just one question, since you are a major perpetrator. Why is evil always *so* cool?
Phil ^^^^
FREE MARS!
*****
Actually, the "snitch" was the C&C tech, NOT the pilot, they just have a somewhat similar appearance.
We've established that klaxons go off elsewhere in the station during an attack to warn civilians, but they aren't going off in C&C because they make it impossible to concentrate, as per military tradition (see "And Now For a Word" to confirm this).
There wasn't time to call Draal, and they can't begin relying on him for every problem; they have to be able to hold their own. You would only bring in Draal on something really major.
jms
****
Londo saw what he said he saw.
jms
*****
There are a number of metaphors in the show that operate on many different levels; it can't be a one-to-one corrolary to WW II, because that limits and makes predictable your story.
In musical terms, it's almost a tonal piece, taking elements to which we respond, almost subconsciously, and then rearranging them into something that is, one hopes, a new construct. You can find here echoes of Vietnam, of Kennedy, of Chamberlain, of WW II, of Korea, of the Mideast; in a way, it's a thematic piece that touches how we have come to think of war, and conflict, across the development of the 20th century, and the role of the individual in that regard.
We have learned to think of war as something now on a huge scale, an entity in itself. Once upon a time, before the gatling gun and the automatic rifle, combat was something individual, even in larger wars, one person against the enemy...and that person was honored, one person could turn the tide against the enemy. In a world in which weapons of mass destruction exist, where then is the individual? Where then the bravery, the struggle, the triumph...and the failure? Where, fundamentally, is the responsibility?
All of that is intertwined with the storyline, and to communicate that I'm not averse to taking elements of history that resonate with that theme and reworking them, knowing that on a cellular level, we *recognize* that aspect, we've seen it...but now in a new context, we can see it differently, discuss its implications, *learn* from it.
This is one of the things I rarely talk about, because it's the kind of thing that is best left simply implied, or implicit, in the work, and because if you have to draw attention to something in the work, somehow I think it lessens it, because it works best unspoken. And because I guess it sounds kinda presumptuous, and high-falutin' and self-indulgent. But it's one the things that matters to me in the context of the story.
jms
******
Yes, there would be some amount of variation among humans, though not in terms of beliefs that may have come along post-Vorlon influence. This sort of thing has been implanted almost at a genetic level, and they do have a hand, or a mind, in activating it when seen. The more people who see them in different ways, the longer they must maintain that, the greater the strain on them.
And someday, some happy, distant day, we do hope to have widescreen laser disks, but that day is not yet in sight.
jms
*****
Thanks. And finding Kosh slightly righteous is pretty much the desired intent. So you're clicking on all the right cylinders.
jms
*****
Joe Straczynski looks like a very small engine pulling a huge caboose.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joseph Straczynski is too hard to say, even for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J.M. Straczynski just looks dorky and cumbersome.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Michael Straczynski, however, gives you a chance to sneak up on the
last name...a little squib, one letter, nice and inoffensive, then a longer
name, and then the big one. It looks balanced on-screen. It's fairly easy
to say.
It's also a good "gatekeeper" of sorts; if the phone rings and it's
someone who asks for Michael, I know instantly it's nobody I know
personally.
jms
*****
No, they didn't phase out so much as absorb the energy, at cost of great pain.
jms
****
What, I should begin catering to prurient interests? Broadcasting picture postcards (likely French) of Vorlons in provocative poses, in lingerie? A terrible thing, that a nice young man such as yourself should be asking about. Does your mother know you're out here doing this? Good heavens.
And who said they reproduce anymore?
jms
*****
What's this fascination with underoos and sheets and uncut something or others...?
Have you started rooming with Daniel or something?
Sigh...y'know, I remember when this was a clean place to hang out, kids could play in the streets, mothers could take their babies out in strollers, you could hang out on the front stoop and talk to people...now it's all underoos and nudie cutie Vorlon pictures.
What's the world coming to?
jms
*****
Thanks. Characters, for me, are the point of a novel, and any good story. Long after the plot becomes fuzzy in memory, you remember the people...you remember Ahab and Michael Valentine Smith and Charles Dexter Ward....
Re: not having adjective/adverb disease...there's something funny there you wouldn't know about. See, when I was in high school, they had Career Day for the tops in various areas (dance, acting, athletics, whatever). I ended up in the Writing group. It was held at Southwestern College down by San Diego. I was stuck in this little room, and nobody came by, because who wants to see writers when you can see athletes and dancers and mimes?
Finally, a short fellow with salt-and-pepper hair wandered in, and went down the line of manuscripts-with-writers, paused at my table. (I was writing stories in the Lovecraft/dark horror vein at the time.) Took one of my stories, walked off, sat in one of the lawn chairs, read it through. Came back, returned the story, took another. Read that one over. Put it back. Looked at me for a long moment.
Then he said: "You have a great and substantial talent for your age. Two pieces of advice: one, don't ever let them stop you from telling the stories you want to tell; two, cut every third adjective."
Then he walked off, and as soon as he was out the door, the faculty advisor came running at me at warp nine. "What did he say, what did he say, whatdidhesay?" I told her. "Don't you know who that was?" she asked.
I said no, though there was something kinda familiar about him, and remember it's always different when you see somebody out of context. "That was Rod Serling," she said, "he's here to speak at the college later today."
Had there been a gun within easy reach, I would almost certainly have put a bullet into my brain. By the time I ran out, he was gone.
That was one of three weirdnesses in my life involving Rod. The other two...are stories for another day.
So when you say I've managed to keep the adjectives down...I'm very pleased.
jms
*****
Yeah, "Messages from Earth" came out quite well as a script; can't wait for it to roll before the cameras.
As it happens, episodes 8, 9 and 10 ("Messages," "Point of No Return," and "Severed Dreams") are kind of a triptych, linked at the hip and designed to pull together/blow out several major hanging plot threads once and for all, and send the show spinning off in an entirely different direction. The hardest one to write was 10, because it's a very emotional episode for the characters, and for me.
And next is #11, which I begin to write this weekend...and #11, year three, is the *exact* midpoint of the 5 year story. This is the hump, the dead center of the journey. It took so long to get here, and suddenly we're halfway finished.
jms
*****
Ellen: thanks. As for the episode in question, it's entitled "Point of No Return," and the role of Lady Morella was written specifically for Majel. I hustled to get it finished prior to the Wolf 359 convention, where I gave her a copy of the script. She read it overnight, and fell in love with the story, the character, and what it was going to do with and to the BABYLON 5 universe (to wit: start turning it upside down). Next morning, she said "I'm in." And she is.
Yes, it's a jms script, and is one of the most pivotal of this season, episode #9, which with the one before it, "Messages from Earth," builds to a major turning point in #10, so it should be a very popular, intense and memorable episode in every respect.
jms
*****
>>
I wonder when something that good will come to TV?
<<
Give B5 another chance. I know it has some problems: a corny opening sequence, occasional flat dialogue, somewhat shallow characters (with the possible exception of Ambassador Vir).
But, it has plusses that more than compensate: decent science (note the way their fighters are launched using the habitat's centrifugal gravity), complex and (mostly) believable plots and deep, deep background with a series-long, multi-stranded storyline [long-time B5'rs may want to point out my mistakes]:
On the edges of the galaxy, something has awakened an ancient evil--wait till you see their starships--which once nearly conquered everything and was only beaten back by a desparate union of the then extant spacefaring species *and* the help of a super-race who have since disappeared, leaving a single, enigmatic representative currently on B5. These nasties--whom we have yet to see--are growing in power and slowly enmeshing many species in their plan to--well, they ain't gonna build a shopping mall.
They have have entrapped the ambitious Centauran Ambassador, Vir--the guy with the funny hair--in a major, Faustian sub-plot. He didn't quite know what he was getting into, but is, with slowly awakening horror, beginning to catch-on and, in the process, becoming the series most interesting character. (Things have happened. He's developing compassion and an ethos in exact and tragic lock-step with his realization that he's trapped.) Trust me: you get used to the hair.
In B5, the sub-plots have sub-plots: The Centaurans have a long back-story history of rivalry with another species, the Narn, whom they apparently uplifted and then, for a time, enslaved, until a rebellion which took place about a hundred years ago. What Vir has done, at the instigation of guess-who, is start a war with them, which the Centaurans are winning--again, with judicious help from the nasties, whoes ships materialize in a battle just long enough to turn the tide, without either side being aware of their presence.
[Inhale!]
Meanwhile, back on Earth, the president has been assasinated--though it was made to look like an accident--and the remnants of a planetary pseudo-democracy are succumbing to the machinations of something called Psycorps, ironically created to "protect"--i.e.,repress and control--people with psy talents
...and this ain't half of it!
The key thing to realize is that this isn't a fake background story of unrelated parts, in which nothing ever really happens or is resolved (or is ignored for months and years only to be abruptly and unsatisfactorily resolved in one episode, a-la STNJ); it's a full blown story, with a beginning, a middle, a climax and an end, and it gets developed week-by-week *along with* and as a sub-plot to each self-contained weekly episode, which also tell their own multi-plotted stories.
*Whew!* With all this going on, it's a good thing a lot of the plot-strands are things we've seen before, or who could keep up with it?
Each of--I think--seven main characters has a back-story, and so does each of three alien species, and B5 as a whole has back-story in which Earth has already fought more than one interstallar war, loosing the second (though you're not supposed to say so).
In short, you have to give this one a few episodes to grab you, but it *will* grab you. Then make sure you locate some friends with video-tapes of the episodes you've missed, because you're going to want them.
Enjoy!
******
Except, of course, that there wasn't "a quick directional change by offering a new enemy" (in second season) because that enemy - the Shadows -- was in there right from the git-go, in season one...in "Chrysalis," which we shot #12 even though it was aired #22 as our cliffhanger, and in "Signs and Portents," short shortly thereafter. So it was always there, and has always been there...they're the primary antagonist, in a philosophical sense, throughout a major part of the story.
"...and the mutation of another primary character." This, also, was in the outline of the story from the very first episode onward; it's *important* to the story, and wasn't done for any of the reasons you cite. (The only change here was that Delenn was originally planned to be a male character, if androgynous, which emerged female from the chrysalis, but we couldn't get the male-altered voice to sound right, so this was dropped, though we kept the more-human aspects.)
You seem to determine "the maturity of the show" by not offering real or substantive changes; but this show is *about* change, and the choices we make that create those changes. There's this notion that if someone's the captain, he has to stay the captain all the time; which is the element that many ST fans criticize in TNG as to why Riker stayed first-officer for seven years, which would kill any other career.
So it's not a reset, it's an advancement of the storyline...look at Londo as we first saw him, and now; ditto for G'Kar...we're talking here major, substantive changes. That aspect is at the very core of the story. You really can't look at this as you would a regular episodic drama in that one respect; "Oh, they just changed characters, so they're just starting all over again." That's not the intent at all.
"the show (TNG) stayed with its basic core of characters and followed a similar structure...B5 episodes seem to detract from this formula." Which is precisely the intent. I don't like formula, or predictability, or to lock down a structure and never change it...that's not life, and I try to make this show emulate life. People change, die, get promoted, demoted, transferred, corrupted, redeemed...change, for me, is the *drama* of the story; to stay static and unchanging the reverse of that. It's *process*, and I find process fascinating.
"I guess patience is a virtue." Well, I have to say that if you're waiting for B5 to settle down into a predictable, unchanging formula, you're going to have a long wait ahead of you, because that's not in the cards. The changes and developments only pick up greater speed and ramifications the deeper we go into the storyline.
jms
(PS...as for "all or some of the credit" for the new SF shows going to ST, much as one might wish that were true, it isn't. Otherwise you'd've had a lot more of them in the last 30 years. I've been in meetings with network and studio execs, and one reason it took us 5 years to sell B5 was because, as we were told verbatim, "There's no market in TV for SF other than Trek; the market won't sustain more than one SF show like that; people don't want SF, they want ST." It was used, repeatedly, to justify why you couldn't do these kinds of shows...and I'd point out that B5 is the FIRST SF show in 30 years, since ST, to be set in the far future, with mankind as a spacefaring civilization, and with a fully worked out cosmology of other races, politics, and governments...and particularly one of the very few to go past two seasons in general. Now you're getting more SF on the air because the networks have finally seen that ST does NOT have a death-grip on TV SF, and other shows, like B5 and X-Files *can* survive.
(Certainly it was never ST's intent for this to happen, and I'm not saying that it is or was; but this has definitely been the result, and the ST shadow has been something for other SF shows to overcome; it has not made the process easier, only more difficult. How many American-made space SF series have gone past 3 seasons other than ST? It's after 4 seasons that the networks/studios begin making back their money, and since the answer to that is "virtually none," you begin to see why they've been reluctant to do more than stick their toes in over the last three decades.)
jms
*****
If I had to look back at season 2 and pick favorites, they'd probably be "The Long, Twilight Struggle," "Comes the Inquisitor," and "The Coming of Shadows." "Coming" is probably the one episode I'd say is most perfect, the most purely B5.
In year one, I thought there were a couple/three eps that just lay there and begged to be shot and put out of their misery. But I don't think we had even one like that in year two. Some were stronger than others, but not one dropped below a certain median high point over year one.
So far, year three is another general step up, with our least episode this season so far being the equal of some of the better year two episodes.
What makes for a perfect episode of B5 in my view? It's kinda hard to define. It's an episode where major and irreversible events take place, which were absolutely set up from what went before, and which turn on the individual choices made by our characters; episodes that have about them the feel of a car absolutely out of control, that ANYthing could happen...the kind of episode that makes you start insinctively reaching for the brake pedal, but it doesn't do any good. And, finally, those that have a nice visual sense of style. I've gradually grown more consistently fond of the montage as a dramatic device, though I'm being careful not to over-use it. (I *really* liked the intercutting in the Emperor's fall in "Coming.")
I'd rather not say anything at all about "Gethsemane," because a large part of the plot turns on something you need to discover mid-viewing, and anything I might say would only detract from it. It's a lovely, sad, very moving story; it's kind of my Twilight Zone story in the B5 universe, with some very strong emotional twists as we go along. It's not the kind of story I get to do within the B5 structure very often, and I'm extremely pleased with this one (and Adam Nimoy did a *bang-up* job directing it; he thinks it may be his best work ever).
We're now shooting episode #7, "Exogenesis." So far, to give my own reactions to the year 3 episodes so far:
"Matters of Honor," somewhat of a continuation of the year two season ender, picking up the pieces, with some great action pieces, mainly a fair amount of fun, which is necessary given what precedes it..."Convictions," a moody, atmospheric, driving piece, stylistically very different for us, with some hysterically funny scenes juxtaposed against some deadly serious and gritty drama..."A Day in the Strife," a fair number of threads, a day in the life episode with everything that can go wrong going wrong, some elements of humor but mainly a straight-ahead kind of episode..."Voices of Authority," you'll see some of our characters doing stuff they've never done before, and we get into the whole question of the First Ones, also fairly straightfoward in storytelling and direction..."Passing Through Gethsemane," which again is just an utter knockout episode, which with "Convictions" comes close to being a perfect episode..."Dust to Dust," haven't seen the director's cut yet, but the dailies looked great...and "Exogenesis," which we just started filming this week, is probably our most "ordinary" story of the batch, though it puts a new spin on several traditional story elements.
On just about every level, I'd say that the year three episodes are an improvement on the year two episodes, and we've got a lot more this season that should be equal to or better than "Coming" and the other top three mentioned earlier, at least based on how they look pre-shooting..."Messages From Earth," and "Severed Dreams" are massive action/character set pieces on the scale of "The Long, Twilight Struggle"...only bigger, and more personal.
It's going to be great.
jms
*****
Talia v 1.0 would not have violated Ivanova's privacy during any kind of intimacy, as that would violate her profoundly; you can hold back, and Talia would have, and Ivanova would've sensed if she had tried it. The theory on telepaths making love is that they both willingly drop the blocks they normally keep in place.
jms
*****
A non-telepath can learn certain tricks to make it harder to break through, albeit briefly, so the reaction was sufficiently ambiguous and the event sufficiently brief that it wouldn't raise too many concerns. Which is why Sheridan dived in when he did; if she'd continue to block much longer, just instinctively, it would've revealed her latent potential. It was his distracting Ivanova that in a sense helped Lyta break through.
jms
*****
The most difficult part on one level is probably the writing, because that's the one time I'm up on the high-wire entirely by myself; in every other aspect of the show, you've got other people, costume designers, EFX people, others who can keep you from falling. Behind the keyboard, if you screw up, you've got no one to catch you.
On another level, the most physically difficult is the editing process, where we go over each episode frame by frame and edit it to within an inch of its life. It's a very detailed and wearing process.
We definitely plan to do more with Lennier next season.
jms
******
Thank you. The episodes should make you wonder about tomorrow, and think about the choices in our lives. If it has succeeded in that, then the effort is worthwhile. Thanks again.
jms
****
Remember, the *conscious* Talia did none of those things; she would never dream of scanning without permission. (And in Ivanova's case, remember that she said she knows *instantly* if she's being scanned. Note her strong reaction in "Eyes" when it happens.)
jms
****
What many folks forget is that Serling's story were as often about redemption as about damnation; about hope as often as about horror. That lesson is forgotten by many horror writers who claim him as influence.
The Serling influence, for me, is the strength of individual humans to endure much, sacrifice greatly, yet come out the other end of the struggle something nobler and stronger.
jms
*****
Actually, what Delenn said was, "...the Rangers *in this area* are under my direct command." So Sinclair's post as Ranger One remains back on Minbar.
And yes, Sinclair has apparently been described as the One...but you must ask...the one *what*?
Expect final answers to this one late this coming season.
jms
*****
The answer is real simple: it wasn't so much Kosh testing her for Kosh's sake, but for *her sake*. All this season, she's been whipsawed back and forth, she's had doubts, uncertainty, has been a weaker character. She needed to have some assurance, whether she knew it or not, that she was the right person, in the right place, at the right time. Look at all she's lost: her place in the Grey Council, her title, many Earthers hate her for her change, many of her own people feel the same...she says it in the beginning, she must be doingthe right thing for the right reasons, and her intents must be pure.
Because nowhere was Kosh consulted, or informed, or kept up to speed; her resolution came on her own, alone. If he needed the info, he would have been informed...but he didn't really need it...she did. And it's in Kosh's interests to start putting Delenn and Sheridan closer together.
jms
*****
Your reaction to the Vorlons is *exactly* right...this is now the process of greying up the Vorlons a bit. What kind of race would do this? What kind of race in particular would bring in *Sebastian* for chrissakes? There's something slightly left of center and definitely atilt about the Vorlons....
jms
*****
"Sheridan's pledges seem somewhat fatuous."
Boy, are *you* ever in for a surprise.
Of course, it's gonna cost him, though.....
jms
*****
Of course, that raises the inevitable question...is penance enough?
jms
*****
Can G'Kar grow to forgive? I don't think so...and yet in a way he must come to something more than rage, and other than forgiveness. There is an important step in his development yet to come. And he will have to go there by a very hard road.
jms
*****
Okay, here's one clue for any would-be Ripperologists out there.
In all the long story of Jack, when he was out doing his nightly work, only one person, a woman, wrote an actual letter, published in the London Times, offering an *explanation* for the Ripper's work, arguing that he was trying to send a message, that maybe people should listen to that message. It was as close as anyone's ever come to an actual *defense* of what he was doing.
Note the woman's name, and who her husband was...a man who was twice interviewed by Scotland Yard, and interviewed by many Church officials, the transcripts of which have been *sealed* by the Church ever since, at the request of the family...a person who was the last man to see at least one of the victims alive...and who was a direct blood relative of the man who was living with the final victim (who was killed indoors, leading to the speculation that she knew her assailant)...who suffered a breakdown just before the murders began, was obsessed with cleaning up the Whitechapel area, and after whose sudden, hasty transfer, the murders stopped...and whose profession is tied *directly* to the only thing the Ripper was overheard to say to one of his victims.
jms
*****
I think that, in the long run, the vorlons and the shadows will answer the questions Who are you and What do you want...in that that's kind of what they *are*, if that makes any sense.
Well, it will. Eventually.
Funny thing is, how much as you note the show corresponds to some of the things Mira's been through...some of it intentional, knowing that if I dig into this area, it'll come out of her with the ring of truth...some of it quite unintentional. When I finished writing "Severed Dreams," and the actors got it, Mira's first words to me were, "So...how long DID you live in Yugoslavia?" The parallel wasn't intentional...but it fit.
jms
*****
The pain is necessary because it's easy to consider laying down one's life intellectually; when the pain and the agony bring it home, it's no longer as easy.
And there *is* no correct answer to "Who are you?" The only real answer is no answer, because as soon as you apply someone's term for it, you have limited yourself, defined yourself in someone else's terms.
Doing things in a refined, gentle, intellectual manner is the sort of thing Delenn's used to, she can handle that easily...the goal of Sebastian was to try and *break* her. That's not intended to be done gently. You don't break someone over a cup of tea discussing philosophical concepts and the nature of personal identity. It's also not terribly dramatic to watch.
Because of her position, rank and authority, she expected to be treated a certain way...which was why it was important to treat her just the opposite. It's easy to put oneself into a grand prophecy, to assume one has a destiny...to pay the price for that is something else again. Anyone can do the former; very few can ever do the latter.
jms
*****
This week the North American market sees a repeat of "In the Shadow of
Z'ha'dum," which features a surprising display of spine by Vir Cotto in
the opening teaser. Vir's behavior in that episode lept to my mind
recently when I came across two passages in Tolkien's *The Fellowship of
the Ring*, the first volume of his *Lord of the Rings* trilogy:
'But where shall I find courage?' asked Frodo. 'That
is what I shall chiefly need.'
'Courage is found in unlikely places,' said Gildor.
* * *
There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is
true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit,
waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow.
Perhaps the awakening of courage in Frodo, Samwise, Meriadoc, and
Peregrin will have a *B5* counterpart in Vir's growth. Time will tell.
Of course, there is a small cottage industry on this group devoted to
noting apparent links between *Babylon 5* and *The Lord of the Rings*.
Without falling into the trap of assuming a one-to-one correspondence
between the works (remember, *B5* is not *LotR* "with the serial numbers
filed off"), there are resonances that demonstrate JMS's acknowledged
admiration for the work. There have been repeated notices of the
following affinities:
Gandalf's "Expect me when you see me" (cf. G'Kar in "Chrysalis")
The Company of the Ring consisting of Nine Walkers (cf. Valen's
assembling the first Nine)
Gildor's "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are
subtle and quick to anger" (cf. Elric in "The Geometry of
Shadows")
The presence of wide-roaming Rangers in both Middle Earth and the
B5 galaxy
While browsing in my favorite used-book store last month, I came upon a
hardcover boxed set of *The Lord of the Rings* in pristine condition.
Taking it as a sign of one way to get through The Long Wait, I bought
the set on the spot and began to treat myself to a re-reading of
Tolkien's epic. (What a joy! After all these years, it continues to
thrill, all the way to those final paragraphs at the ends of Appendices
A and B, which, for all their simplicity, still rip me up when I read
them.) In addition to the two quotations cited above that helped me get
a better fix on Vir's character, here are a few other resonances I noted
along the way:
*LotR* opens with Bilbo's "eleventy-first" birthday; however,
hobbits count in base ten, unlike the Minbari, who count in
base eleven
Gandalf, early on in the story, says of Gollum, "My heart tells me
that he has some part to play yet;" later, on the Road to
Rivendell, Glorfindel declares, "my heart warns me that the
pursuit is now swift behind us;" and much later Gandalf says,
"Yet my heart guessed that Frodo and Gollum would meet before
the end" (cf. Delenn's declaration that her heart tells her
she must remain on Babylon 5 rather than become Leader in
"Babylon Squared")
One epithet of the traitorous Saruman is the White Hand, and one
epithet of Sauron is the Black Hand (cf. the abundant "hand"
imagery in *B5*)
Gandalf, on his death and rebirth after defeating the Ballrog, says,
"I have passed through fire and deep water" (cf. Delenn quoting
Valen in "The Parliament of Dreams" and warning Lennier of the
danger of associating with her in "All Alone in the Night")
I can't help but wonder how much JMS was struck by Gandalf's poem about
Strider/Aragorn in the letter that Butterbur delivered to Frodo:
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.