Thanks. He's a fascinating character to explore, and the most careful balancing act of the bunch; part of the character's appeal is that on a very fundamental level, you *like* him, and you don't want to see him on this terrible slide downward. So every so often, you have to pull him back, go in a different direction, remind us of his basic humanity and potential for heroism. He is, really, any of us caught in a web of events spinning more and more out of control every day.

jms
*****
>>Notice how in this episode, Londo says, "I'd never threaten you or the others".
Three episodes later, in "And Now For a Word"....

Hi Robert--

I did indeed. Poor Londo. Like Joe says, we all _want_ to like the poor little fat guy. I mean, after all, he sits up waiting for hours for his only remaining friend in the whole universe. He's so damned pathetic. And we want to believe him too, when he says, "I'd never threaten you." Then he turns right around and vindicates every doubt we ever had.

I truly hope that sometime before the series ends Londo will redeem himself, even if it's the last thing he ever does at the very moment before he dies. Something to give his life meaning, an act that causes his epitaph to read something good despite all his earlier sins.

******
The Rangers will be an increasingly important presence.

jms
******
What one finds depends on what one looks for, and what one sees.

jms

*****
I certainly hope so. We've done all we can to help the process along. We've put many of our actors up for it via the application process, which is time-consuming and expensive, we made videocassettes up for academy members of two of our best episodes ("Coming --" and "Geometry of Shadows"), also very expensive...so we can only hope they get the recognition they deserve.

I think we'll have a strong shot at some of the technical areas, like EFX, costuming, makeup, sound editing, music, that sort of thing, IF enough academy members actually *look* at the episodes, but the non-tech stuff, acting/writing/directing, are always long-shots in the SF genre, sadly.

jms
******
Okay Brett, here we go. Please fasten your seatbelt and hang on:

Opens on Centauri Prime. Refa is lovingly fondling the emperor's throne when Londo comes in. They talk about how the Emperor is out among his people. Refa tells Londo that they have an opportunity to end the war (been going on about 6 months). Scene shifts to G'Kar's quarters. He is talking to G'Sten (W. Morgan Sheppard) the Narn Warmaster. The Narn are planning an attack on a major Centauri supply world. It will require stripping the defenses from the homeworld, but he feels if they can cut the supply lines, the Centauri will lose their nerve. He also tells G'Kar that the war is going badly and they continue to lose battles. G'Kar argues that they shouldn't leave the homeworld undefended. G'Sten (who we find out is G'Kar's uncle) says the homeworld will be defended enough. Before he leaves, G'Sten tells G'Kar his father would be proud of him. Back on Centauri Prime, Refa tells Londo they have intercepted information that the bulk of the Narn war fleet will attack the supply world. Londo says "And we will be waiting for them?" No, Refa says. Your friends will. We will attack the Narn homeworld. Londo gets upset at this. Refa tells him that you started this and you can't back out now. Londo asks how they will attack the Narn homeworld. Refa says they won't directly assault it, but use mass drivers for planetary bombardment. Londo is shocked, since mass drivers are banned by every civiilized world. Refa says it will end the war sooner and save Centauri lives. Londo reluctantly agrees to call in his friends. He says it will be the last time, because his friends are beginning to scare him. Refa tells him that Londo will be coming with them to the assault on the Narn homeworld. In C&C, Lt. Corwin picks up an energy surge from the planet below. We now see Delenn, in her quarters, meditating. Suddenly there is a glow of light on her face. She smiles and says "Hello, old friend." Now in Sheridan's quarters, he is taking a shower (yet another B5 first!). Ivanova calls him to tell him about the energy surge. Her transmission breaks up and there is a bright light in his quarters. Draal appears to him. (John Schuck).

(All before the first break!)

Back on B5, Draal explains his younger appearance as due to the effects of the machine below. He invites Sheridan and one other down to visit him. He says Sheridan will know which other to bring. And he warns him not to wait too long to come. G'Kar has been summoned to Medlab by Dr. Franklin. He tells him how a Narn escaped from the Centauri. They had been interrogating him, asking him about the homeworld defenses with a certain sense of urgency. G'Kar goes back to his quarters and calls G'Sten. He argues that this info, along with the fact that the Centauri didn't finish securing their latest conquest as they always do, but pulled out their ships early, that the Centauri are planning an attack. G'Sten says the assault on the supply world is too far advanced, and besides, that's not really enough info to go on. Sheridan is walking along the corridor and Delenn calls to him. He says he doesn't have time, but she tells him Draal appeared to her also. They then talk with Garibaldi, who argues against them going down to the planet. They finally convince him it will be safe. They take a shuttle and head off. Delenn leads him down corridors. Sheridan asks her if she knows where she is going. She replies that she has an excellent memory so she is "absafragginglutely sure" of where she's going. Sheridan is a bit shocked, but she says she is learning the language. (Not really clear, Joe said it refers to something that happened in the previous episode, Divided Loyalties.) They show more of that shot of the walkway over the vast machine cavern. They come into the room from VITW and see Draal in the machine. He appears to them. He tells Delenn it is good to see her, but boy has she changed. As you have, old friend, she replies. Draal then tells Sheridan he has been watching him. He has also been using the machine to sort of monitor things going on in the universe. He tells Sheridan that he has made good, tough decisions. He also says that Sheridan is involved in a conspiracy of light against his own government. Sheridan tries to bluff his way out, but Draal stops him. Draal tells him it is time for the machines in the planet to be used. He places them at Sheridan's disposal. He says he will remain in touch. When Sheridan asks how he will contact him he says there are several others here who maintain the machine and they help keep him informed. One in particular is very helpful.

The Narn war fleet jumps out of hyperspace. They start an attack run and 5 shadow ships shimmer into existence. G'Sten wants to leave, but the jump engines aren't recharged yet. So he orders an attack. (This all happens at long distances.) The shadow's body ejects a spiky ball, which opens up into those little shadow ships. (Very cool!). The little ships go after the Narn fighters, while the beams from the shadows start damaging the Narn cruisers. Three of the cruisers concentrate their beams on one spot and manage to cut off one end of one of the legs(?) of one of the big shadow ships. While this is going on, we see G'Kar praying over his holy book with only a candle for light. The scene occassionaly switches back to him from the action. Two Narn cruisers are left, so they open jump points to escape. The shadow's body ejects another ball (not certain if the same kind as before). The balls enter into the jump points and destabilize it. The Narns can't pull out and are both spectaularly destroyed. One shadow ship mates or connects to the damaged one and they all shimmer out. G'Kar uses his gloved finger to put out the candle.

(Everyone stops and breathes now.) Halfway point.

Draal is escorting Sheridan and Delenn when there is a disturbance in the planet. He tells them it is time to return. They all have much to do. He tells Delenn it is time she tell Sheridan. Delenn says goodbye to her friend. After they leave, Draal says "Zathras! Zathras! Where is he when you need him?" Centauri ships (some big ones we haven't seen) start bombarding Narn with mass drivers. Huge explosions of light show on the planet. Back to B5, Ivanova alerts Garibaldi about the attack on Narn. He readies for riots once the news gets out. In the Zocalo, an ISN reporter starts giving the news of the assault. The Narn homeworld is being devastated, their infrastructure being destroyed. A huge fight breaks out between Narns and Centauri in the bar. Ivanova and Garibaldi greet the returning Sheridan and Delenn and advise them of the riots. Delenn is escorted back to her quarters. There is a long tracking shot in to a Centauri cruiser, the assault continuing. Standing in a window, the battle reflected in the glass, is Londo. He watches, with increasing discomfort. (Wonderful SFX, and Peter does a great job). G'Kar gets a message from homeworld. It is occassionaly a bad transmission, due to the continuing attack and power failures. G'Kar wants to return to homeworld, to be with his family. As the last member of the Kar-ri(sp?) he must stay where he is. The Narn government has one more duty for him to perform. Sheridan is in his office listening to the reports of the attack on Narn. G'Kar slowly enters, and tells Sheridan, "my government has instructed me to come to you.... and ask for sanctuary."

Commercial break.

Shots of the station, guards in full riot gear with rifles. Londo arrives, and Garibaldi informs him he will have a full guard on him and his quarters at all times. He asks Garibaldi to tell Sheridan he wants a full council meeting. At the council meeting, Kosh, Sheridan, Delenn are there, as well as the League of Non-Aligned Worlds. (The Markab seat is empty.) G'Kar is there, but not behind the table but sitting next to it. Londo states that the Narn government has surrendered. There are certain terms. All members of the Kar-ri will be arrested and tried for war crimes against the Centauri people. Sheridan says he wants Earth observers at the trials. Londo says, "Request denied!" Second, if any Narn kills a Centauri, 500 Narns will be killed as punishment, including the family of the Narn who did it. Third, Narn is now a protectorate of the mighty Centauri Republic. All Narn worlds now belong to the Centauri. The Centauri will appoint a provisional government to run Narn. Londo now says that G'Kar must be arrested, as he is the last member of the Kar-ri not under arrest. Sheridan stands up and says that's not possible. Sheridan tells Londo that G'Kar asked for sanctuary on B5 and Sheridan has granted it. Delenn stands up and states that the Minbari government also supports this. Londo is furious. He says G'Kar no longer represents a government and is only a mere citizen now. Londo insists that G'Kar no longer appear at council meetings as he is no longer an ambassador. G'Kar slowly stands up. He says that the Narn will not give up, that you cannot hold back those who are willing to fight for their freedom. He warns Londo they will be free once more, if it takes a thousand years. He walks out of the council chambers.

Commercial break.

Sheridan in his office listening to reports that the Centauri have taken over some planets near the Narn homeworld. However, Centauri Prime says they are not interested in being expansionist. He gets a call on his link that Delenn wants to see him. He goes into a room, filled with Minbari and human rangers. Delenn, Kosh and Garibaldi are there. They explain that the rangers have been there a while gathering info. They are an army against the coming darkness, which is coming much closer now. Garabaldi tells Sheridan that he has known, but couldn't tell Sheridan about it because of a promise he made to a friend. Delenn has been in charge of the rangers and she is now giving Sheridan equal authority over them. They are his army, to use as he sees fit. Sheridan is a bit shocked by all this. He finally accepts, stating that B5 will be a beacon of light against the forces of darkness.

End.

WOW! This took longer to write than to watch. Brett, I can't begin to convey to you the impact of this one. Huge amounts of SFX, Peter and Andreas (Londo & G'Kar) are absolutely magnificent. At the end, the once proud Narn ambassador is humbled, humiliated, and a broken man. You literally forget to breathe at times, the suspense is so heavy.

If you have any questions, let me know. I may be a bit off on the breaks and the sequence of events may be a bit off, but it is from memory. Again, I would ask that you don't say anything about this publicly or spread it around privately.

Thanks. Again, if you want more details, ask. I've pretty much put in everything.

Barbara
*****
Tom, Don, and interested others:

Just back from the Comicon and it was great.

Michael O'Hare is wonderful. Funny, intelligent, well-spoken. He even did a demonstration of stage fighting with a member of the audience.

Peter David is very funny and loves in-jokes. He showed us a pilot of a show he and Bill Mumy created for Nick called Space Cases. His daughter Ariel stole the show from her father, as well as the microphone occasionally.

Now to the stuff you're really interested in.

First, I've met Joe twice now. Everyone should make an effort to meet him or at least see him in person. His writing reflects his personality, especially his honesty and passion.

Second, he claims to be terrified of speaking in front of crowds. Well, all I can say is he's a wonderful actor as well as writer, because you can't tell. He's a wonderful storyteller in person (as well as on TV).

Joe showed a tape set to music (someone else will have to provide the title) that showcased just about every special effects shot they've ever shown on the show. Then he showed the season two blooper reel. All I can say about it in a family forum is that Jerry Doyle must be a lot of fun to work with.

>>Well, from my experience, Joe allows us to tell people WHAT we saw, but nothing about it other than how much we liked it. It's VERY tough not to spill the beans.<<

That's for sure. Joe made everyone raise their right hand and swear an oath "so help me Kosh" not to reveal details. So I won't. But there are three things I feel I can say about "The Long, Twilight Struggle":

One, at the end of the episode, we gave Joe a standing ovation.

Two, WHAM,WHAM,WHAM,WHAM,WHAM, WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW,WOW, OHMYGOD,OHMYGOD,OHMYGOD,WHAM,WHAM,WHAM.

Three, Joe wrote previously "Hell, in some ways, when compared with "Struggle," "The Coming of Shadows"
is a light comedy in which nothing much happens." Let me tell you, he was not exaggerating or lying. He told the complete and total truth.

I now return you to our regularly scheduled reruns.

Barbara

*****
Actually, Drazi are asexual, carrying the attributes of both, with their basic appearance reading to us like males.

jms
*****
It's really sad, but...see, on the one hand, I like filet mignon, and occasionally lobster, and all the other hoity-toity foods you're supposed to like and eat when you're a TeeVee producer, but see...I hate even to admit this in public, but...I actually kinda *like* McDonald's burgers. I don't know why, but there it is. I usually end up ducking into one when I'm by myself, because the explanations...well, you see my problem.

jms

*****
Greetings, all. I was browsing through the Internet B5 newsgroup today, and I caught this interesting post regarding a BBC program on medieval history and the three ages of mankind. Interesting insights. Thought you might enjoy it:

-- Bob

From: Niall Teasdale <nt@sss.co.uk>
Subject: ATTN: The Third Age - BBC 2 Reveals All
Date: 19 Jun 1995 08:00:28 GMT

I beg your collective pardons if someone has noticed his before, but...

There I was watching a program on medieval history on BBC on Saturdays night,
when suddenly this professor is telling me about the Three Ages of Mankind.
Here goes:

The Sibyl (whe're not sure which one, but our best guess is the Sibyl of
Cumae who sold the Sibylline Books to King Tarquin) prophecied in Roman
times that history would be divided into three ages. The interpretation
(because she couldn't have known about Christ) was that the First Age was
the time of the Old Testament, and the Second Age was the present period,
after the birth of Christ.

The Third Age of mankind would be the final age before the end of the world,
when MANKIND'S HIDDEN PURPOSE WOULD BE REVEALED! Before then there would be
a last emperor who would unite his people through the false words of the
Devil (Londo?).

Now it just so happens that the medieval scholars who were interpreting the
texts came up with a date for the end of the world: 1260.

That's exactly 1000 years before the time of B5, and I believe it was at
that time that the Shadows rose up and were knocked back by the Vorlons and
the Minbari.

Sounds like that might explain the Third Age business. And it all comes
from watching history programs on BBC2.

Niall

*****
I was just looking over the Lurker's Guide, and I re-read this quote, from Delenn's speech in "In The Shadow of Z'Hadum":

"The last time, the Shadows lost because they moved too quickly. Now, they are being careful, gathering their forces slowly....The Shadows will move now, before we're ready for them."

Isn't this contradictory? First, she says the Shadows lost previous wars because they started too early, and now they're taking more time to prepare. Then she says we don't want to attack right know because we're not ready.

Now, the Shadows are slowly gathering their forces, and continue to amass power as their forces converge and build up around Z'Hadum.

The "good guys", on the other hand, seem to be disadvantaged by the waiting: The Centauri and the Narn are pounding on each other; the EA and Mimbari have growing internal strife, with growing isolationism - it seems possible that hostilities may again erupt between the two; and the Vorlons have had thousands of years to rebuild their forces in preparation for the Shadows' next resurgence - a few more months (or years) wouldn't seem to make much difference.

It seems the only forces that are growing to help against the Shadow's are Sinclair's Rangers, whose powers seem kind of minimal, at least for now; and the arrival of Babylon 4 from the past next year.

Therefore, wouldn't it make sense for the Vorlons, whatever Rangers have gathered, maybe the Narn (whatever's left - it would've been better if they attacked before the war started) and Delenn's friends in the Mimbari (there's got to be some) to pound the heck out of the Shadows now, before they're ready? If someone blew up Z'Hadum, it seems that would deal a serious blow to the Shadows' plans.

(Of course, jms probably has something up his sleave, but we have to wait too long for the new episodes which explain all of it, dammit!<g>)

Colin
******
The forces you describe are not sufficient to take out the shadows, even at this stage. It's going to take a much larger force, which is what Delenn et al are trying to gather.

jms
*****
"We crave ACTION."

And you shall have it. In abundance.

jms

*****
It would get rather redundent and boring after a while if the same war continued for three seasons, would it not?

jms

*****
You're assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based on romance. We'll explain what that means in year three.

jms
*****
"It's a rebirth ceremony, all right, which sometimes doubles as a marriage ceremony."

Amazing how everyone went for the secondary meaning and omitted the most obvious meaning in presaging the rebirth Delenn went through in "Chrysalis."

jms
*****
<I mean the transcript of Londo narration for The Gathering.>

Here it is:

Babylon 5, The Gathering

"I was there at the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind.
It began in the Earth year 2257 with the founding of the last
of the Babylon stations, located deep in Neutral Space. It was
a port of call for refugees, smugglers, businessmen, diplomats
and travelers from a hundred worlds. It could be a dangerous
place but we accepted the risk because Babylon 5 was our last,
best hope for peace. Under the leadership of it's final
commander, Babylon 5 was a dream given form. A dream of a
Galaxy without war, where species from different worlds could
live side by side in mutual respect. A dream that was
endangered as never before by the arrival of one man on a
mission of destruction.*
Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations.
This is it's story..."

<Also, I haven't yet seen posted the real 2nd season narration (not the one I typed in, that was actually 1st season). Has anybody posted it yet?>

Don't know but here it is:

The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace. A self contained world 5 mile long, located in neutral territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter of a million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space, all alone in the night. It was the dawn of the third age of mankind, the year the great war came upon us all. This is the story of the last of the Babylon stations. The year is 2259. The name of the place is Babylon 5.

Asha
*****
A question for you, Joe, on something that's been on my mind:

When you came up with the idea for Babylon 5, why did you decide you wanted to make it into a TV series?

If I have the chronology right, you were a script writer at the time you came up with the idea. Was it just logical to go TV since that's what you were currently doing? Why didn't you just put it aside and plan to write five 500 page novels when you had the time. (Mind you, I'm glad you chose to put it on TV!)

In some ways it would be easier to write it. You could do flashbacks, flashforwards, move between planets, and never have to worry about the budget or the current limitations of CGI technology. Or did you think the story could be told better visually, with the words being brought to life by actors?

Just nosy and trying to pass the time till October. Thanks!

Barbara
*****

Any time I come up with a story, I try to look around to determine where it would work best. This one *felt* like it belonged to TV.

More than that, though...I went into this looking to create a saga for TV. It wasn't so much coming up with the story, and realizing it was a TV saga, as it was, "Nobody's ever done a multi-year science fiction saga for television. As a thought-experiment, can I come up with something that would work in this medium?" This led me to the structure that became Babylon 5.

jms
*****
As I responded in private mail, I'm drawing upon a number of military influences in the show; some from WW I, in the Great War and how WW I sort of slid into WW II; some tactical and strategic elements of WW II military; and some of the political elements that went into the Vietnam and Korean conflicts. Actual tactics and battles will vary; there's a major battle setpiece in a later episode that uses more contemporary and futuristic elements such as long-distance (thousands of kilometers) tactics, interceptors and the like.

Also as I noted in email...I just learned today from someone high up in military PR in Washington that Babylon 5 is very popular with many branches of the military. They call it a "force multiplier" (morale booster) for naval and air force and ground troops (apparently the show gets shipped out to bases and to carrier/battleship groups). It's also very popular with many folks in the Pentagon and the Secret Service. (In one case, the Secret Service apparently did an analysis of one of our episodes as an exercise in character analysis of military persons under high-stress situations.) The Flying Tigers have also been very supportive of the show, even allowing us to use their symbol in the series.

jms

*****
Re: hints about next season....

Well, how about a major change in the very structure of the B5 universe?

How major?

Imagine if, one day, the Enterprise crew discovered that their ship had actually been constructed by the Romulans, and that they were morally obligated to go off and serve the Romulan empire...and that didn't change at the end of the episode, it *stayed* that way for the rest of the season.

That scenario bears *no* resemblance to what I have planned for year three, so there's no point in riffing off it and looking for clues. But that is emblematic of the Major Event waiting about halfway through the third season.

How's that for a start?

jms

*****
Thanks. Yeah, the idea of getting out of this part of the Biz and back into novels or plays is very appealing. The pace would be FAR less difficult, you write at your own pace, there aren't 250 people standing behind you waiting for pages.

I've been writing, first part-time, then full time, since I was in high school. Full-time since about 1979. 3,000 pages a year. Writing twelve hours a day, every day, except my birthday, my spousal overunit's birthday, christmas and new year's. By the time B5 is finished, I think I could well use a slightly slower pace...maybe sit by a nice, quiet little stream for a while, feed the ducks....

jms

*****
Actually, I kind of began by writing plays and short stories. Got commissioned to write a full-length play while still in high school, which was performed at a full assembly of the school, and shortly thereafter was hired to write another full-length play which ran in summer stock at a local college for something like 16 weeks. I was barely 18. (It was later published in book form by a leading playbook house, and -- I'm chagrined to note -- is *still in print*, still being produced around the country and overseas.) Wrote something like a dozen produced plays, one-acts and full lengths, before seguing over into radio, journalism, then TV.

jms
*****
Actually (and this is far more information that anyone could conceivably want), since it's come up...yes, definitely more than a few books. The total stands at 12 produced plays, 2 published novels, 1 published anthology, a number of published short stories, a dozen or so produced radio dramas, something over 120 produced episodes of television (I'm afraid I've lost count, could be 130 or so by now), and over 500 published articles for places like THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, PENTHOUSE, VIDEO REVIEW, LOS ANGELES HERALD EXAMINER, WRITER'S DIGEST, TIME INC. and others.

jms

*****
Actually, the baseballs *were* CGI. Amazes me that they made such a big deal out of it in "Forrest Gump." We just did it and threw it away.

jms

*****
Yes, we'll change the theme again. The theme and narration changes with the theme and part of the storyline we're entering. Some don't like the year two theme as much as the 1st because it doesn't summon up the same feelings; it shouldn't. It's a different chapter in the story. I've already spoken with Chris Franke about my ideas for the music for year three, and I think it'll be pretty kick-ass.

jms
*****
The problem is the medium. If an artist wants to do art in the form of paintings, he needs canvas, paint and a subject. If an artist wants to do art in the form of television, he requires, oh, about $22 million, give or take. In the case of ST, closer to $39 million, figuring $1.5 million per show, which is actually on the low side. That's per season.

When you've got THAT much money riding on it, plus in the case of ST, literally *billions* of dollars in revenue from merchandising...well, you begin to understand why things happen the way they do sometimes.

We're *trying* to set a better example. Many producers putting new SF shows together have come to us, and we've given them tours of our stage and facilities, explained how we do what we do, and many of them are now using the "Babylon 5 Model" in putting their shows together for the networks and studios. As far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier.

jms

*****
Then again, you've got Thomas Jefferson who said, "Given the choice between a government and no free press, and a free press without a government, I would choose the latter."

The job of the reporter is to get out the facts that an informed electorate (emphasis on the word informed) needs in order to determine who to vote for, what bills to support, what changes to implement. This is often inconvenient for politicians, who'd much prefer that they did what they did in the shadows. Consequently, they paint this picture of the media as a ravening beast, the "liberal press," when in fact virtuallly every major newspaper, TV station and radio station in the country is owned by Big Business, which is invariably conservative in nature.

Politicians and those citizens who fall for the okeydoke speak of the "media bias," but the media is made up of may disparate people, from different backgrounds, political beliefs, income levels and educational backgrounds as, well, the country itself. There's no such thing as a collective "media bias," there are no secret cell meetings where the new agenda is established every year. It doesn't exist except in the minds of politicians who wish to create this image in order to discredit the messenger when the news is inconvenient for them.

And the reality is that the American press today is *tame* considering what it has been like in the past. There was absolutely NO pretense about journalism, newspapers wore their allegiances like banners. Editorials and cartoons were vicious beyond description.

Without reporters, there would be only one source of information: the government story. Period. Where I come from, that's not only unAmerican, it's downright Soviet. They may be unpleasant at times, they may be rude, they may sometimes fall into the unfortunate realm of the cult of personality, but the system is self-correcting; such individuals fall from grace pretty fast in journalistic circles...they may even be impertinent. But the simple truth is, sometimes the only way to get pertinent information is to ask impertinent questions.

jms
*****
"Paramount HAS increased the avenue of approach for more SF/fantasy by CREATING the market with TNG."

The only thing wrong with this statement is that it isn't true.

ST creates a market for more ST, nothing else. As one who has had to speak with just about every network and studio major domo on this subject, the overwhelming concensus has always been, "The market isn't big enough to sustain more than one SF series, and that's Star Trek." From time to time, grudgingly, one or the other tries it, but almost always half-heartedly.

I heard that line scores of times in the process of trying to sell B5, which is one major reason why it took 5 years to sell it. If what you say were true, then there should have been dozens of SF space series by now. But there aren't. There's only us, and we had to work hard to overcome the ST-Is-The-Only-Marketable-SF problem, combined with Paramount's little games (making sure we're relatively invisible to Entertainment Tonight, getting Stephen Furst kicked off a guest-shot on the old Arsenio show to avoid promoting B5, and other little tricks I could go into).

None of which is to say that ST is bad, or that the people who make ST are bad, this is Paramount stuff.

But we had to fight hard to overcome the stumbling blocks put in our way that are part and parcel of ST, so you will forgive it if the hairs on my neck stand up when someone CREDITS the development of shows like B5 to ST. It is absolutely, positively not true.

jms

*****
Yes, it is difficult selling anything new to television. But you do not usually hear, "We've got one hospital show on the air now, that means you can't sell any others because the market's full." Yet that has been the case with ST for years.

What will cause *more* SF shows to come is, well, more SF shows that succeed. Up until now, ST has been viewed (using the industry term) as a "non-repeating phenomenon." And if you step back and look at it from a network POV, they're quite correct. Very, VERY few science fiction series have ever made it past the second or third year. But you can point to many mainstream shows that have gone five, eight, twelve, even fifteen years (in the case of such an abombination as "Hee, Haw"). "Murder, She Wrote," which I was a part of for two years, has been on the air...what? Eleven years? Twelve? Not one SF show has ever done that.

As soon as you have more than one SF show that lasts more than, say, three or four years, then you might see more. We are one of the very, VERY few to make it to its third season. And, consequently, some network and studio types are thinking maybe it can be done, maybe you CAN have more than one around at the same time. But they're still edgy, and they still use the line that there's only room for ST all too often.

I'm not making this up, Don. Even once we got the series pickup, we were told by a WB exec, "I'm not holding out any hope for this. It has never been shown that there's any market for SF other than Star Trek." (That person has subsequently come around.)

And as an SF fan myself...the more good SF on television, the more I like it. The Morgan/Wong pair from X-Files are doing their new Space series, and I wish it all the best. The more the merrier; competition helps the field. I just wish the folks at Paramount understood that, and took a healthy competition as something good, not something to be attacked or destroyed in order to preserve a franchise.

jms
*****
To confirm word already leaking out via John Copeland on AOL...yes, we received word that BABYLON 5 has been renewed for its third season. I got the call this evening, and have spent the time in-between doing Producer Stuff, and taking care of a small bug that hit last night, and has thus taken a bit of the edge off the news.

Nonetheless...we've been renewed. Shooting on year three will begin around July 31st. This season will put us past the halfway mark on the series total. Expect Big Things and some major changes not just in characters, but the structure of the B5 universe itself.

And now...to work. With thanks to all of our friends on the nets who have stood beside us through the last two years.

jms

*****
I was just on hyperion. On the what's new page for the Lurker's Guide is a message signed by John Copeland, a producer of Babylon 5 .

Date: 95-06-08 22:22:38 EDT

Well you can all relax, break out the champagne, or
whatever your pleasure is -- we got official notification
for the third season this afternoon. We're good for 22
more eps. Prep will start next week, and we intend to
start production in late July. The third season will
premiere in Nov. We feel pretty good here, I hope all
of you do as well. Thanks to all of you fans for
your support. We'll try to live up to your expectations.

John Copeland

OK, Joe, can you tell us the name of the 3rd season yet? Or do we have to wait until the last episodes of this season air?

Elyse

*****
While I'll let the other question slide for the moment, yes, I'd like to see either Sakai or Takashima again. Some of what I'd considered for Takashima I recently transplanted into more fertile ground (he said vaguely and mysteriously), but yes, I'd love to do it sometime.

jms
*****
"...you don't have anything up your sleeve, by any chance?"

Constantly.

If I didn't, it wouldn't be Babylon 5.

jms
*****
Assuming we're renewed (we hope to finally hear next week), there are plans afoot to unveil an official in-house fan club operation here at B5, which would handle some convention liaison stuff for other conventions, and would eventually lead to a proper B5 convention which we would put together using the very same folks who make the show. Since there's the benefit of PR, we wouldn't so much be looking to make a profit as just breaking even and, most important, having a good time...so the sense of it would be closer to a fan-run convention in tone.

But be assured, that's at *least* a year down the road. Maybe more.

jms
*****
Yeah, you're right, it probably is in October; I was going off a mental countdown, just approximating. The last 4 take place between late October and mid-December, 2259.

jms
*****
There's another Lincoln quote that you don't hear very often, I think it was about a book or play, which I think is great..."If you like that sort of thing, it's the sort of thing you'll like." That line has gotten me out of more diplomatic situations than anything else I can think of.

jms
******
I disagree strenuously with the notion that the universe as presented in the current ST series is a "brighter vision of the future." It looks to me like humans have left behind everything that makes us humans. We've been bioengineered to within an inch of our lives. There seems to be no interest at all in what happens back home on Earth...politics, changes in culture, fashion, new music. One's job description seems to be the end-all and be-all of his or her life. "Recreation" is always the sedate card playing type, the nightmare dinner party of the 1950s, or living out a fantasy world in the holodeck because there's nothing much in the real world.

Passions and spikes in our humanity have all been hammered down and eliminated. Remember "Invasion of the Body Snatchers?" That, to me, is the Star Trek future...set aside your passions, do all for the collective good, it's a better world that way. Maybe you call that perfection; me, I call it a nightmare.

jms
*****
No, what usually happens is that you sense a calling one way or another early on; you are assigned to (for lack of a better term) a teacher, who guides you and sees if your calling is sincere (the teacher is from the caste you feel called toward), and if the calling is true, you can enter that caste.

jms

*****
THE FILE ON VALEN, PART 1

Author's Note: This series of posts began as an attempt to sort
out Minbari religion, with a goal of figuring out the mysteries of
the past (Valen) and the present (The One). It soon became evident that
too many ambiguities remain--with the promised explanation of The One
not due until the two-parter around Episode Ten of Season Three, that
leaves about fourteen more episodes in which JMS can continue to salt
more clues to tantalize us. Accordingly, this post--the first of three
--is something of a dossier on Valen and his prophecies, taking stock of
what is known, what is ambiguous, and what remains to be revealed.
Although these posts do not resolve the mysteries of the arc, they may
prove helpful to others in organizing their thoughts about where the arc
is taking us. I have taken pains to anchor my remarks in what has been
shown us from "The Gathering" through "Confessions and Lamentations."
Because the matters discussed here invite speculation, I strenuously urge
those who reply on the rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 newsgroup to remember the
distinction between analyzing what is known and inventing story ideas.

I would be remiss if I neglected at the outset to acknowledge my debt to
those posters on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 whose previous analyses have
contributed to my thinking on the matters treated below. Unfortunately,
the volume of contributions to the group is such that it is impossible to
keep track of each individual's contributions to the common effort. As
always, the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 maintained by Steven Grimm at
hyperion.com has proved to be of immense value.


WHO--AND WHAT--WAS VALEN?

For an initial understanding of Valen's role in Minbari history, we can
turn to a trio of remarks from JMS:

Valen was the one who brought Minbari civilization together,
he is their Christ-figure. [Lurker's Guide, "Babylon Squared"
page, "JMS Speaks"]

Prior to the time of Valen, the Minbari's greatest spiritual
leader, there was killing of Minbari by Minbari. There were
three warring castes, which he pulled together when he formed
the Grey Council (three from each caste forming nine, Worker,
Warrior, Religious Caste). Since that time, and the Minbari
have been in space for well over a thousand years, they have
pretty much hewn to that rule; it is their greatest taboo.
Once the three sides were integrated, the warrior caste mainly
contented itself with external threats. [JMS on UseNet, 14
December 1994]

Valen called the Nine together and formed the Grey Council about
a thousand years ago, give or take; died not long thereafter.
[JMS on UseNet, 29 December 1994]

Early assumptions that Valen was a Minbari have lately been challenged
with speculation that he might have been a Vorlon. It has even been
suggested that "Valen" is a corruption of "Vorlon." We know from "In the
Shadow of Z'ha'dum" that "about a thousand years ago" was also the time of
the last war between the Shadows and the Vorlons (the last of the First
Ones to actively engage the Shadows), a war in which the Minbari allied
themselves with the Vorlons. The coincidence in timing has raised the
possibility that, given the enormity of what Valen accomplished, he might
not have been a Minbari, but a Vorlon. The suspicion was at the heart of
this post by Christopher Novosad:

Holy Valen! So the warrior caste has been ticked off for
1,000 years. No wonder they're so scary. They've held a
grudge against Valen for that long. Now all their scoffing at
the prophecy and the religious caste makes sense. Personally,
I think these guys killed Dukhat to ruin Valen's prophecy --
Revenge motivation (of course the humans could have gotten
VERY lucky and I'm wrong).

Delenn refuses to help the Children of Time because someone
interfered with Minbari religion and the results have caused
her and her people to avoid doing so to others. Valen is said
to return. So 1,000 years ago, how did Valen do his coming and
going? I'm beginning to seriously wonder is this Valen guy was
a Minbari at all. Someone subduing a violent caste sounds like
manipulation. And those prophecies do hint at more knowledge
than the Minbari had at that time. Of course he could be a
Minbari with powerful friends so he could maintain control and
reign in the warrior caste AND set up the new Minbari government.
Or he could be powerful himself. Perhaps he had the help of
three triluminaries; I'm sure their powers, creatively applied,
could go a long way.

This post drew a response from JMS; unfortunately, he opted to write in
his Delphic "I hate it when he does that" mode:

Christopher: save this message of yours and keep it at hand
going into the [third] season, around the 10th episode or so.
[JMS on UseNet, 13 June 1995]

Not everything in the Novosad post was on target--when Delenn spoke of
interference with Minbari religious matters, she had someone else in mind:

I view Delenn's comment about "suffering the interference of
others" in regards to matters of the soul in "Believers" to be
a reference to the Soul Hunter. [Lurker's Guide, "Believers"
page, "JMS Speaks"]

Nevertheless, Novosad was clearly onto something. It may be telling that
JMS has greeted other inquiries--direct and indirect--on Valen's origins
with silence. On the basis of what we know, Valen's race--Minbari or
Vorlon--remains to be confirmed. There is a case to be made for either
possibility.

***Valen as Vorlon?***

The case for Valen being a Vorlon hinges upon the 64,000-credit question:
What do Vorlons look like? A growing body of speculation, to which I
find myself increasingly attracted, argues that whatever a Vorlon is made
of, a viewer who looks upon a Vorlon perceives the Vorlon as a figure
from the viewer's race. Some have speculated the viewer would perceive a
reflection of himself; others propose that the viewer would perceive an
archetypal figure from his own race. I lean toward the latter, but either
possibility would account for Kosh's assertion that if he emerged from his
encounter suit, he would be recognized by "everyone" ("In the Shadow of
Z'ha'dum"). The language of the Minbari references to Valen that we have
heard treats Valen as a prophet, not a deity, and that suggests that he
looked like a Minbari to other Minbari. Even if JMS's characterization of
Valen as a "Christ-figure" implies that the Minbari do regard Valen as a
deity, the analogy suggests a deity who took Minbari form. Assuming that
a Vorlon had the capacity to appear to the Minbari in the guise of a
Minbari prophet/deity named Valen, what evidence do we have that such a
thing did occur?

A. As Novosad observes, to subdue the warrior caste would have
required great power. Possibly Valen's power was the moral
authority of a prophet, but more conventional kinds of power
cannot be precluded.

B. Although Valen established the Grey Council with equal
representation from each of the three Minbari castes, he
seems not to have identified with any one of them. This is
implicit in Minbari ritual references to The One (Valen) and
The Nine (the first Grey Council). When, in "Babylon Squared,"
the Grey Council asked Delenn to succeed Dukhat as Leader (the
ten cycles of mourning having ended), we learned that the Leader
of the Minbari comes from the Grey Council. The fact that Valen
was not part of the original Nine, yet led them, argues for his
being somehow distinct from them.

C. Circumstantial evidence suggests that Valen's activity was
related to the Grey Council's coming into possession of its
three triluminaries, which JMS has indicated are not Minbari
in origin. The Vorlons may have provided them--more on that
in Part 2.

D. The Minbari religious rite demonstrated by Delenn in "The
Parliament of Dreams" culminates in the phrase "And so it
begins"--the phrase that Kosh speaks in "Chrysalis" shortly
after Delenn has begun her transformation. There is
circumstantial evidence that the rite was initiated by Valen
and that it reflects prophecies he made that are coming to
pass in Delenn's time. (For more on the rite and the
prophecies, see Part 3.)

E. Members of the Grey Council evidently possess certain enhanced
mental faculties--Delenn's ability to block a telepathic scan
(seen in "Legacies") and the grey triangles that appear on the
Counselors' foreheads under certain conditions, for example.
There have been hints that Vorlons have the capacity to induce
such enhancements--for example, had Patricia Tallman remained
with the show after "The Gathering," the "enhanced telepath"
plot would have arisen from Lyta Alexander's having scanned
Kosh, not from Jason Ironheart's having made a gift to Talia
Winters. (More on the grey triangles in Parts 2 and 3.)

Aside: An aspect of the lost Kosh-Lyta plot line may
be re-appearing in the Kosh-Sheridan plot line. Kosh's
dream-contact with Sheridan in "All Alone in the Night"
and his subsequent "lessons" for Sheridan may be enhancing
Sheridan's mental perceptions. Sheridan's awakening with
the phrase "In memory of The One and the Nine" at the
Minbari dinner in "Confessions and Lamentations" suggests
his drowsy mind telepathically picked up a phrase from
Delenn and/or Lennier's meditations.

F. In "Confessions and Lamentations," Delenn describes how, as a
little lost girl in a Minbari temple, she saw a figure "bright
against the dark" who told her that if she believed, her parents
would find her, and that "I will not allow harm to come to my
little ones here in my great house." We do not yet know
whether Minbari are monotheistic or polytheistic--the "my" in
the reassurance to little Delenn might be "Valen's," but
we cannot be certain. We have seen several indications that
Vorlons are luminous ("The Gathering," "Midnight on the Firing
Line," and "Chrysalis"). Perhaps what little Delenn saw was a
a Vorlon assuming Minbari form; on the other hand, the glow she
saw could simply have been part of a visionary experience.
(Keep in mind that we have not heard any explicit evidence that
Valen had a radiant presence.)

G. There is circumstantial evidence that Vorlon intervention in
Minbari spiritual life might be part of a larger pattern of
Vorlon intervention on worlds caught up in the Shadow-Vorlon
conflict. JMS may have hinted at this long ago:

Religion is actually a fairly common topic in the
B5 series; it's in "By Any Means Necessary," "The
Parliament of Dreams," and several other episodes,
sometimes subtly, sometimes as a main theme. And
we will be dealing with CROSS-POLLINIZATION OF
RELIGION ACROSS SPECIES AND WORLDS, and you will
see some of the Centauri pantheon of gods. [JMS on
UseNet, 7 December 1993; emphasis added]

The cross-pollination might be as simple as an alien wearing a
Roman Catholic priest's collar (referred to by JMS in a post
I neglected to copy), but it could be much, much more. Another
world that might have experienced a Vorlon intervention is
Narn. It will be recalled that about a thousand years ago--that
is, at the time of Valen's activity and the last Vorlon war with
the Shadows--the then agrarian world of Narn suffered contact
with the Shadows:

Let's just say for now that about a thousand years
ago, Narn was used as a lay-over and supply spot for a
Shadowman group that landed there for a time, and used
it briefly as a base of operations. [JMS on CompuServe,
11 November 1994]

Whatever happened during that brief period, it evidently
entailed resistance from the Narn, at least in part led by the
prophet G'Quon [G'Quan? Even JMS has been inconsistent on the
spelling], whose book of teachings includes an image of a
lesser Shadow minion:

The shadows have their servants, which are being
recalled to their places of power. That was one of
their lower-level types. [Lurker's Guide, "The Long
Dark" page, "JMS Speaks"]

We saw in "By Any Means Necessary" that G'Quon's teachings entail
sun worship. If G'Quon were an intervening, luminous Vorlon,
that might account for that aspect of Narn faith. (In many Earth
cultures, solar deities are luminous in aspect or dress.) So far,
however, we cannot advance beyond speculation on this point. The
situation is further complicated by our lack of knowledge of the
role of G'Lon, an apparent contemporary of G'Quon whose religious
teachings differ in content (alluded to by Na'Toth in "By Any
Means Necessary"). Obviously, we need to learn more about Narn
religion(s).

Aside: In "By Any Means Necessary," Londo derides Narn sun
worship as primitive, which may mean a solar deity is not
found among the Centauri pantheon of gods. It will be
interesting to see whether that circumstance bears any
relationship to this remark by JMS:

Nnnnnnoo, not really; the Centauri don't actually
have an equivalent to G'Quan or Valen. Believe it
or not, this one answer may add another layer to a
scene in one of the last episodes of this season.
You can infer it backwards once you see it, but now
you'll have it going in. [JMS on UseNet, 8 June 1995]

Aside: At least since "The Coming of Shadows," there have
been several posts exploring evidence that suggests Stephen
Franklin has a past connection to the Vorlons that he has
not acknowledged to anyone else. (I wrote two such posts
myself after "Hunter, Prey;" the topic has enjoyed renewed
interest since "Confessions and Lamentations.") If the
Vorlons have been manipulating religion among other species,
it will be interesting to learn whether they had anything to
do with the emergence of Foundationism, to which Franklin
adheres ("In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum").

***Valen as Minbari?***

In spite of all the preceding circumstantial evidence, there is no proof
that Valen was a Vorlon. An alternative argument can be made that Valen
was a Minbari--especially if we assume that Valen was a Minbari working
with the benefit of Vorlon instruction or assistance.

A. We have already seen two instances of Kosh acting as instructor
or mentor to members of other races. The full extent of his
direction of Delenn's activities remains to be revealed, but
from her knowing to greet him with a bow in "The Gathering," to
her needing to see him before beginning her transformation in
"Chrysalis," to her working with him to arrange Morden's release
in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum," their interactions suggest a
collaboration in which she is the junior partner. More open to
our view have been Kosh's lessons teaching Sheridan how "to
fight legends." Furthermore, Kosh stated in "Hunter, Prey" that
hearing a mind call out to him, as Sheridan's had in "All Alone
in the Night," was something he (Kosh) had experienced once
before. The source of that previous call has yet to be named;
possibly it was a Minbari named Valen, although other names
(Sinclair? Delenn? G'Quon?) come just as readily to mind.

B. None of the lettered points from the "Valen as Vorlon"
argument given above precludes Valen from being a Minbari;
each point can be adapted to fit a scenario in which the
transformation of Minbari civilization is effected by a Valen
who is a Minbari who happens to be a beneficiary of Vorlon
teaching/assistance. I won't spell out how such adaptations
might have occurred because that would venture into the
forbidden terrain of story ideas.

C. If Valen were a Vorlon, we would expect his teachings would
promote an identity of Vorlon and Minbari interests. However,
there is one suggestive indication that although Minbari
interests are closely allied with those of the Vorlons, they
are not identical. That is the ritual statement intoned by
Delenn when she enters the Grey Council's meeting chamber in
"Babylon Squared":

In Valen's name, I take the place that has been
prepared for me. I am Grey. I stand between the
candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between
the darkness and the light.

We have seen a pattern of imagery in which darkness is linked
with Shadows (as their name implies) and light is associated
with (luminous) Vorlons. Yet, acting in Valen's name, the
Grey Council does *not* ally itself with the camp of light;
rather, it positions itself as a mediating influence between
the two opposing forces. Presumably this means something more
subtle than that the Minbari occupy the front lines against the
Shadows--JMS has repeatedly admonished us that simple equations
of the "Shadows = Evil" and "Vorlons = Good" variety do not
apply. The precise nature of the mediation that Valen intended
the Grey Council to provide has yet to be revealed to us. I
shall return to this point in another context in Part 3.

There is more to be said about the ritual statement Delenn intones upon
entering the Council Chamber, but that entails a consideration of Valen's
career, to be reviewed in Part 2.
*****
THE FILE ON VALEN, PART 2

Author's Note: This is the second of three posts that assemble a dossier
on Valen and his prophecies, taking stock of what is known, what is
ambiguous, and what remains to be revealed. I have taken pains to keep
my remarks rooted in what has been shown us from "The Gathering" through
"Confessions and Lamentations." Because the matters discussed here invite
speculation, I strenuously urge those who reply on r.a.s.t.b5 to remember
the distinction between analyzing what is known and inventing story ideas.

WHAT HATH VALEN WROUGHT?

Valen's great achievement was to end civil strife among the Minbari and
to unite them in more common purpose under the leadership of the Grey
Council:

Prior to the time of Valen, the Minbari's greatest spiritual
leader, there was killing of Minbari by Minbari. There were
three warring castes, which he pulled together when he formed
the Grey Council (three from each caste forming nine, Worker,
Warrior, Religious Caste). Since that time, and the Minbari
have been in space for well over a thousand years, they have
pretty much hewn to that rule; it is their greatest taboo.
Once the three sides were integrated, the warrior caste mainly
contented itself with external threats. [JMS on UseNet, 14
December 1994]

But what can we identify as the specifics of Valen's teachings? What
legacy did he leave to the Grey Council and to the Minbari as a whole?

To begin with, there is the clue of the ritual statement which Delenn
intones upon entering the Grey Council's meeting chamber in "Babylon
Squared":

In Valen's name, I take the place that has been prepared
for me. I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star.
We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light.

As noted in Part I, "between the darkness and the light" seems to refer
to the age-old conflict between the Shadows and the First Ones (for our
purposes, the Vorlons) in a mediating capacity. In Valen's time, that
took the form of alliance with the forces of light (the Vorlons), as
confirmed by Delenn in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum." Early in Season
Two, JMS posted

Valen did have something to do in the struggle against the
Shadows at a prior time. [JMS, UseNet, 6 November 1994]

On the other hand, the explicit identification of the Grey Council with
a place *between* the light and dark suggests the possibility that the
Grey Council could be called upon to tilt the other way. We have yet
to see any indication of what sort of circumstances would produce such
a response.

At this time, the meaning of "I stand between the candle and the star"
remains unexplained. The parallelism between sentences suggests that
"candle" and "star" are to be viewed as opposites, like "darkness" and
"light," but the nature of the opposition is obscure. It might be as
momentous as birth (Lennier placed candles before the chrysalis from
which Delenn was reborn) vs. death (a return to the "star stuff" from
which we all are made). However, other oppositions of "candle" to
"star" are possible: Mundane/near vs. heavenly/far? Short-lived vs.
long-lived? Feeble vs. brilliant?

Valen assembled the Grey Council with an emphasis on threes--three satai
from each of three castes--and from that we might reasonably suspect that
the importance of tripartite imagery in Minbari civilization results from
his influence. And that brings us to those three three-sided objects in
the Grey Council's possession, the triluminaries. When one poster to the
newsgroup observed that, inasmuch as the Minbari had only three of the
devices,

There is good reason to believe the Minbari Triluminary device
is an artifact not created by the Minbari

JMS memorably responded [Usenet, 1 June 1995],

DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING!

(No one dared ask JMS whether that was the sound of a bell ringing or a
percussionist playing a triangle. If the latter, shouldn't there have
been *nine* dings? But I digress . . . .)

If the Minbari didn't construct the triluminaries, who did? From what we
have seen of the technologies of the different players, there are two
candidates: the Technomages and the Vorlons. The Technomages, of course,
are masters of technology. On the other hand, some of the uses to which
we have seen triluminaries be put are tied to events that seem to be
leading to the imminent Shadow-Vorlon conflict (the "Great War" and the
"Shadow War" of the Season Two and Three opening monologues, respectively),
in which the Vorlons will apparently participate, whereas the Technomage
response to the approaching war has been to vacate those sectors of known
space in which the conflict will unfold. That suggests that earlier
Technomages would have been unlikely to have taken part in the war during
Valen's time. Besides, Technomages are reported to have lived on many
worlds; so far, only the Minbari have been seen to possess triluminaries.

By default, that leaves the Vorlons, whose technological achievements are
extraordinary--just recall the organic technology we saw in "Hunter,
Prey." Indeed, the Vorlons' technological prowess stands high on the
list of reasons why other races strive to establish dealings with them:

The Vorlons are the great unknown . . . Their technology is
vastly superior to just about everyone else's. To unravel the
mystery, to maybe get a *piece* of their tech, is more than
sufficie inducement, I'd think. [JMS on UseNet, 28 April
1994]

It may be that the Minbari already have a "piece of their tech"--three
pieces, in fact. Whether Valen was a Minbari or a Vorlon (see Part 1),
he would have been the most likely conduit for the three triluminaries
to come into the Grey Council's hands. But how were they distributed
among the Council? Was any of the three devices accessible to any satai?
Was one device allotted to each caste's trio of satai--i.e., allocating
them along caste lines? Or were all three triluminaries entrusted to
the three satai from a single caste? The satai who gave Delenn a
triluminary in "Babylon Squared" said it would not be missed because
there were two others, but we don't know to which caste he belonged.
Once again, we're still missing significant details.

More important, once you have a triluminary, what can you do with it?
We've seen that a triluminary can be used

to interrogate a human prisoner ("And the Sky Full of Stars"),
to erase and to restore that prisoner's memory (implied in
"Chrysalis;" Rathenn restores Sinclair's memory with one in
the comic "In Darkness Find Me"), and perhaps to scan that
human for a Minbari soul (not shown, but we haven't seen any
other device that might do so);

to knock out Minbari warriors guarding Branmer's body, leaving
them no memory of what had happened to them ("Legacies");

to power Delenn's transformation from a Minbari to a half-Minbari
half-human being ("Chrysalis").

Several of those functions suggest that one can use a triluminary to
manipulate a subject's mental faculties. This raises a possibility
that the triluminaries might be responsible for some or all of four
types of enhanced mental faculties possessed by members of the Grey
Council.

First, we have seen that under special circumstances, grey
triangles appear on the foreheads of the satai. Delenn's
appeared during Sinclair's interrogation in "And the Sky Full
of Stars," and at the end of that episode, we saw a triangle on
the unnamed satai who warned Delenn that Sinclair would have to
be killed if he recovered his memory of his time aboard the Grey
Council's ship. Delenn's triangle also appeared during Morden's
visit to her in "Signs and Portents."

Second, also during "Signs and Portents," when Morden visited
Delenn, he took on the aspect of a black silhouette, as he later
did in the presence of the enhanced telepath Talia Winters in "In
the Shadow of Z'ha'dum."

Third, when Alisa Beldon scanned Delenn in "Legacies," Delenn was
able detect the scan. Indeed, Delenn had some capacity to block
the scan, which she used when Alisa detected the word "chrysalis"
(Alisa: "She shut down real fast when I touched that").

Fourth, we have the testimony of the rogue Soul Hunter in "Soul
Hunter" about the Minbari--testimony based upon the resistance he
met from the satai who prevented him from catching the soul of
Dukhat:

The Minbari: pale; bloodless; look into their eyes and
see nothing but mirrors; infinities of reflection.

The "mirror" metaphor may be nothing more than an expression of the
rejection of his intentions that the Soul Hunter encountered, but
because we have also seen mirrors figure in Kosh's apparent study of
ways to confound Talia Winters's telepathic ability ("Legacies"), the
remark might refer to some kind of mental shielding.

To be sure, there is no proof that ANY of these special faculties is
related to triluminaries--indeed, there is no evidence whether these
faculties are unique to satai or common to all Minbari--but the
possibility that triluminaries are used to strengthen/enhance satai
faculties (perhaps upon their appointment to the Grey Council?) cannot
be dismissed out of hand.

In addition to what he provided to that first Grey Council and to the
generations of satai who followed, Valenn is the most likely person to
have established the religious rite that Delenn performed in "The
Parliament of Dreams." With its recitation of a text and its ritual
consumption of food, the ceremony has obvious affinities to familiar
rites such as the Christian Mass/Eucharist/Communion and the Jewish
Seder. In part, the institution of the ritual may have been one
aspect of Valen's determination to bind the Minbari castes with a
common culture. In part, however, the ritual seems to be a means to
express aspects of Valen's prophecies. Those prophecies are taken up
in Part 3.
*****
THE FILE ON VALEN, PART 3

Author's Note: This is the third of three posts that assemble a dossier
on Valen and his prophecies, taking stock of what is known, what is
ambiguous, and what remains to be revealed. I have taken pains to keep
my remarks rooted in what has been shown us from "The Gathering" through
"Confessions and Lamentations." Because the matters treated here invite
speculation, I urge those who reply on r.a.s.t.b5 to remember the
distinction between analyzing what is known and inventing story ideas.

PROPHECY AND FULFILLMENT

So . . . she's done it, hasn't she? She's in there. We told
her to wait. "The prophecy will attend to itself," we told her.
Now we are committed to the path.

So says a clearly irked Satai Hedronn (caste unspecified) to Lennier as
Delenn's transformation proceeds in "Points of Departure." From our
perspective, it might seem more accurate to say that JMS will attend to
prophecy, for at this writing, the ancient prophecy situated at the very
heart of Minbari belief resembles nothing so much as Bad Bad Leroy
Brown: "like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone."

Surely so important a prophecy came from Valen--the Minbari "Christ-
figure" who was "the Minbari's greatest spiritual leader" (JMS--see Part
1). It was Valen, then, who predicted that a time of great change would
come when the Minbari would encounter a race as yet unknown to them who
would play a great role. As Delenn said in "Babylon Squared":

This Council stopped the war against the humans because of
prophecy, because Valen said that humans, some among them, had
a destiny, which we could not interfere with.

The catch was that Valen's original prophecy did not identify the race
whom the Minbari would encounter:

There was the prophecy, but they didn't know specifically
to which race it pertained until much later. [JMS on UseNet,
16 June 1995]

We learn in "Babylon Squared" that Delenn was sent to Babylon 5 to study
humans in order to determine whether they were the race about whom the
prophet spoke--a possibility that confronted the Grey Council when scans
of Jeffrey Sinclair and other human prisoners resulted in the discovery
that humans had full or partial Minbari souls ("Points of Departure").

As late as "Babylon Squared," some satai remained skeptical that the
prophecy referred to humans; as Hedronn's remark in "Points of Departure"
indicates, it was Delenn's unilateral decision to enter her chrysalis--an
action that Valen may also have anticipated, in that it required a
triluminary to achieve (see Part 2)--that forced the Grey Council to move
forward in dealing with the humans. And even then, the Council was not
unanimous on the nature of humans, as we learned from Neroon's rage in
"All Alone in the Night." Because Neroon also mentions the possibility
of a "great war" coming, in the context of debating Delenn over the
interpretation of Valen's prophecy, we can conclude that the approaching
Great War also figured in Valen's prophecy.

Aside: Does Sheridan's use of the name "Great War" in the
opening credits narration for Season 2 foreshadow Sheridan's
learning the details of Valen's prophecy?

Our best view onto Valen's prophecy is the Minbari rite performed by
Delenn in "The Parliament of Dreams." As the hooded celebrant, she
says,

"Will you follow me into fire, into storm, into darkness, into
death?" And The Nine said, "Yes." "Then do it in testimony
to The One Who Will Follow, who will bring death, couched in
the promise of new life, and renewal, disguised as defeat."

[Red fruit is distributed to the congregation.]

"From birth, through death and renewal, you must put aside old
things, old fears, old lives. This is your death. The death of
flesh. The death of pain. The death of yesterday. Taste of it,
and be not afraid, for I am with you, to the end of time. Taste
of it."

[The celebrant eats the fruit. The celebrant unhoods.]

"And so it begins."

As I interpret, punctuate, and capitalize the ritual text, the celebrant
recites words originally spoken by a prophet, except for the positive
reply to the prophet's initial question from The Nine. The prophet, of
course, was Valen, for who else would have had the stature to ask The
Nine (that is, the original nine members of the first Grey Council) to
follow him through an ordeal--or to ask them to do so "in testimony" to
someone to come whom they have never met?

As is often the case with ritual/mythic language, the death and renewal
imagery in the text lends itself to several interpretations. At the
time Valen instituted the ritual, "death and renewal" could refer to
the death of the old order of Minbari civil strife and the beginning of
the new Minbari that Valen established through the creation of the Grey
Council. At the time that Delenn celebrated the ritual in "The Parliament
of Dreams," "death and renewal" could refer to the end of her life as a
pure Minbari, and to the beginning of her life as a half-human, half-
Minbari. (Compare the robe she wears to her robe in "Chrysalis.") After
her traumatic interview with the Grey Council in "All Alone in the Night,"
she tells Lennier, "Very soon now, I will be going into darkness and
fire," which harks back to Valen's ritual question.

Aside: When Delenn sees Kosh in "Chrysalis" before undertaking
her transformation, she responds in part, "Now I will keep the
promise." Is "the promise" the positive answer she gave to
Valen's ritual question as celebrant in "The Parliament of
Dreams," or does it refer to something else?

Above all, at the time of the events we have witnessed in *Babylon 5*,
"death and renewal" can also refer to a need for a Minbari society in
political and crisis to renew itself. After a thousand years, the order
Valen established is breaking down. Since "All Alone in the Night," the
Grey Council has been out of balance (four satai from the warrior caste,
only two from the religious caste), and since "A Voice in the Wilderness,
I" we've known from Draal that the old values are on the wane with the
emergence of "a self-involvement above the needs of others." And the
agent who brings with him the hope of renewal is The One Who Will Come
--Jeffrey Sinclair, a human with a Minbari soul.

That is what most have concluded from Zathras's having identified the
Sinclair from the future as "The One" in "Babylon Squared." However, the
possibility has been raised that Delenn might somehow be The One. One
poster to this group wrote

So who IS the One? Some of the evidence points to Sinclair,
but other bits seem to indicate Delenn. Yet neither seems to
fit all the facts . . . .

To which JMS responded,

Exactly. What you have here in your message are two pieces of
the puzzle. You're confounded by the fact that somehow they don't
quite seem to fit into one another. That's because there's one
last piece missing in this part of the picture, which fits in
between them. The intent is to put this piece into clear view in
year three, probably between episodes 8 and 11 approximately. At
that point, the question of the One will be fully answered. [JMS
on UseNet, 16 April 1995]

Although Delenn certainly has a role to play in Sinclair's coming to know
his destiny as The One, the matter of Valen's prophecy seeming to refer
to her as The One might better be explained as a misleading consequence
of the multiple interpretations (noted above) to which the language of
the ritual text lends itself. The very name "The One" suggests a single
person.

As to the "piece missing in this part of the picture," there is this
recent post to the group:

A few more tidbits: Michael O'Hare will be returning for at
least one two-parter in season 3 (we knew that), and this two-
parter will feature Babylon 4's return, and Sinclair's discovery
of *the rest of* the story of the Battle of the Line. [Report
on JMS at ComicCon, 30 June 1995]

It was at the Battle of the Line that Sinclair was captured, taken aboard
the Grey Council's vessel, and scanned, whereupon it was discovered that
he had a Minbari soul. When the phenomenon of soul-migration was
revealed in "Points of Departure," it prompted a flurry of speculation
on this newsgroup that Sinclair's Minbari soul was that of Valen--the
Minbari belief that souls are recycled having been established in "Soul
Hunter." This line of speculation takes on yet more weight in the light
of the ritual Minbari dinner that we witnessed in "Confessions and
Lamentations," for there we learned the Minbari expect Valen to return
(another part of his own prophecy?). We have it direct from JMS that
Valen died after founding the Grey Council:

Valen called the Nine together and formed the Grey Council about
a thousand years ago, give or take; died not long thereafter.
[JMS on UseNet, 29 December 1994]

What the Minbari anticipate might be the return not of a mortal body, but
of an immortal soul. Time will tell.

So how does Sinclair, as "The One Who Will Follow," go about bringing
the Minbari "death, couched in the promise of new life, and renewal,
disguised as defeat"? As the object of the soul-scan that led the
Minbari to surrender in the Earth-Minbari War, he brought the Minbari
defeat. As initiator of human-Minbari cooperation (e.g., founding the
Rangers) in the face of the resurgent Shadow-threat, he has begun to
bring the Minbari a renewal of purpose. (What would Draal think?)
If the Minbari as a race have been dying--i.e., suffering depopulation
through soul-migration--Sinclair confirms their doom; yet, he promises
new life by demonstrating that the Minbari souls have not been lost, but
have merely found a new destiny/destination.

How, then, does Delenn figure in the prophecy? The fact that the
wording of Valen's prophecy of renewal can be applied to her entering
her chrysalis suggests that Valen foresaw a Minbari would become a
bridge between humans and Minbari. Certainly that is how Delenn has
interpreted matters, to the point of acting unilaterally in the face
Grey Council urgings to wait. In terms of the paradigm of the mythic
hero set forth by Joseph Campbell, Delenn seems to be what Campbell
termed "The Goddess"--a woman of beauty and magical power whom The Hero
(Sinclair for sure; as for Sheridan, we'll see) encounters upon setting
out on his quest. Think of Ariadne assisting Theseus to battle the
Minotaur, or Medea assisting Jason to obtain the Golden Fleece. (And a
tip of the hat to David Meleedy for his recent post urging us to apply
Campbell's work to our analyses of the arc. Campbell's *The Hero with
a Thousand Faces* should be required reading for this newsgroup.)

One question we might ask about Valen's prophecies is, how were the
Minbari to recognize that the time had come for his prophecies to be
fulfilled? The fact that the Minbari did not know how to recognize the
race (humanity) whom Valen predicted that they would encounter--indeed,
the Minbari nearly annihilated humanity in the jihad of the Earth-
Minbari War--indicates that Valen's prophetic language was allusive,
not clear-cut. I presume, however, that Valen would have made some
provision for "signs and portents" by which a later generation of
Minbari might recognize the prophesied time had come. At least one
other satai besides Delenn has recognized something extraordinary is
happening. The unnamed satai in "Babylon Squared" who gives Delenn a
triluminary remarks,

These are curious times. I feel a great change in my bones.
A new beginning, an end, I cannot say. We are surrounded by
signs and portents, and I feel a darkness pressing.

(Andrew S. Liebeskind has suggested this satai might be Rathenn, the satai
who restores Sinclair's memory and brings his soul home to Minbar in the
comic "In Darkness Find Me," and a friend whom Delenn and Draal briefly
mention in "A Voice in the Wilderness I".)

The need for prophetic signs brings me back to the grey triangles that
occasionally appear on the foreheads of satai. We know that the
triangles have specific meaning:

While the triangle is one element of the Grey Council
symbology, it is not present and visible at all times and
under all circumstances; it has a particular purpose or
meaning. [Lurker's Guide, "Babylon Squared" page, "JMS
Speaks"]

As a working hypothesis, I suggest the grey triangles might be "prophesy-
sensors"--i.e., they will appear when a satai is in proximity to an event
foretold by Valen. (This would lend itself to my suggestion in Part 2
that the mental capacity that produces the triangles might be related to
triluminaries.)

Delenn's triangle appears during Sinclair's interrogation in
one of the flashbacks to the Battle of the Line in "And the Sky
Full of Stars"--i.e., about the time Sinclair was discovered to
have a Minbari soul.

At the end of "A Sky Full of Stars," we saw a triangle on the
unnamed satai who had been eavesdropping on Sinclair and Delenn's
conversation--i.e., not long after Sinclair had recovered part
of his memory of his capture during the Battle of the Line.
(Where was Delenn's triangle during the end-of-episode chat with
Sinclair? Perhaps she had suppressed its appearance so that
Sinclair would not see it.)

Delenn's triangle also appeared during Morden's visit to her in
"Signs and Portents"--the arrival of the Shadow menace--the
threat to which Sinclair/The One will respond with actions that
offer the Minbari the renewal of purpose Valen foresaw would be
needed.

Of course, this hypothesis is one that will be tested when we see the
circumstances that prompt the *next* appearance of a satai's triangle.

Thus, it would seem that the stage has been set and the players put in
position for a time of conflict and change that brings with it a hope of
renewal for the Minbari. One way of grasping the transition in progress
is with two simple diagrams. The first suggests the situation that
Valen brought into being about a thousand years ago:

SHADOWS * * * MINBARI * * * VORLONS
Dark Grey Light

This arrangement accords with two of the sentences spoken by Delenn when
she enters the Grey Council's chamber as a satai: "We are Grey. We stand
between the darkness and the light."

In contrast, the new order that Sinclair, The One Who Will Come, is
challenged to create is one that seems to have not one, but two races
between the extremes of Shadow and Vorlon--and that features as well as
select company who, in different ways, represent the union of interest
between those two races: Sinclair (a human with a Minbari soul),
Delenn (a half-human, half-Minbari), and the Rangers (humans and Minbari
working together). Schematically, we can represent it this way:

DELENN
SHADOWS * * * * HUMANS * * * * SINCLAIR * * * * MINBARI * * * * VORLONS
Dark RANGERS Light

Although "Dark" and "Light" still apply to Shadows and Vorlons, the term
"Grey" will not suffice for the three intermediate groups. How to label
them? There may be a clue in the explanation that Delenn gave the Grey
Council in "Babylon Squared" when she declined to become Leader in order
to remain on Babylon 5 studying humanity:

[Humans] do not seek conformity. They do not surrender. Out of
their differences comes symmetry. Their unique capacity to fight
against impossible odds. Hurt them, they only come back stronger.
The passions we deplore have taken them to their place in the
stars, and will propel them to a great destiny.

Whereas Minbari live in a highly structured society where a rigid caste
system enforces powerful norms of conformity, humans are more passionate
(less structured) non-conformists whose disorder somehow generates their
capacity for greatness. We can add those factors to our diagram:

DELENN
SHADOWS * * * * HUMANS * * * * SINCLAIR * * * * MINBARI * * * * VORLONS
RANGERS

Dark Non-Conformity Conformity Light
Creative Disorder Stable Structure

The contrast between human and Minbari qualities suggests as well two
additions to the characterizations of the Shadow and Vorlon extremes.
As I noted in a mid-June analysis entitled "The Shadow-Vorlon Conflict,"
one way to view the Shadows' actions is to see them as "culling the herd"
of galactic races by encouraging a "survival of the fittest" in which
aggressive races grow stronger and weak races face destruction. The
Vorlons, in contrast, adopt a more passive, hands-off attitude. We can
represent these qualities on the chart with "conflict" and "calm."

DELENN
SHADOWS * * * * HUMANS * * * * SINCLAIR * * * * MINBARI * * * * VORLONS
RANGERS

Dark Non-Conformity Conformity Light
Conflict Creative Disorder Stable Structure Calm

We should note that although "conflict" and "calm" appear as opposites,
they both can be regarded as dangerous extremes. This is more obvious in
the case of Shadow "conflict"--the wars the Shadows provoke can lead to
the deaths of billions. But too much Vorlon "calm" might also be a
dangerous thing. Is it the "calm" of an idyllic age, or is it the "calm"
of stagnation and ossification? Time will tell, but perhaps such danger
is the reason that Valen elected to position the Grey Council BETWEEN the
light and the dark, rather than solely with the light (see Part 1). Were
we to extend the diagram farther to the left, we might find "CHAOS"; were
we to extend it farther to the right, we might find "STASIS". (Readers of
Joseph Campbell's *The Hero with a Thousand Faces* will recognize this
kind of opposition as part of his mythic paradigm of the Universe.)

Of course, advancing that possibility isn't all that much of a stretch in
the light of what JMS himself told us back before Season 2 began (UseNet,
24 September 1994):

One of things that I like to play with is the layering of ambiguity.
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that we set up two sides:
Shadowmen vs. Vorlons, which looks like evil vs. good. Fundamentally,
I would find that boring. What you would then have to do is get into
WHY they're doing what they do, and HOW they're doing what they do.

There is, for instance, the "good" that says, "We know what's best
for you, we'll protect you, nurture you, but you'll do it our way,
and we'll keep you away from ideas and beliefs you shouldn't be
exposed to." Okay, maybe that fits one definition of good...but is
it?

On the flip side, for instance, there's the "bad" that says "There
must be conflict and death, because it's only through conflict and
death that we grow stronger, that we can eventually create an ordered
universe. The gene pool must be kept strong. To do that, there must
be war and strife and death." Okay, maybe that fits the definition
of evil, but is it?

The key, again and always, is that nothing is what it seems on
Babylon 5. And even if it looks like it IS what it is, you have to
look at WHY it is what it is...and maybe at that point it isn't.
One of the things about this show is that you see as much as you're
willing to see. You can gloss over it, say, "Okay, these are the
good guys, these are the bad guys." But the closer you look, the
more you see the shades. I imagine when the Shadowmen are more fully
revealed, some folks'll think we're going for a basic good/evil
conflict...but believe me, there's a hell of a lot more involved in
it than that.

Let's look at that diagram again:

DELENN
SHADOWS * * * * HUMANS * * * * SINCLAIR * * * * MINBARI * * * * VORLONS
RANGERS

Dark Non-Conformity Conformity Light
Conflict Creative Disorder Stable Structure Calm

Recognizing the dual hazards that Conflict and Calm can represent matters
because each half of the inner pair on our diagram--that is, humans and
Minbari--seems to be drifting toward its neighboring pole and the danger
that pole represents. On Minbar, there are signs of resistance to change
in that faction of the Grey Council that seems not to believe that Valen's
prophecies of change are coming to fruition (to judge from Delenn's
expulsion from the Council and the assignment of her place to Neroon, an
enemy of humans who is not from Delenn's priest caste, but from the
warrior caste). As for the humans, Earth Alliance has entered a period
in which "creative disorder" threatens to degenerate into "destructive
disorder" owing to the corrosive conspiracies of Psi Corps, the Clark
Administration, and Bureau 13.

If that is correct, then the challenge that faces The One and his allies
is to provide a center--to provide a new balance, a new intermediation
that the Grey Council can no longer provide. CAN THE CENTER HOLD? To
preserve stability without letting it become static, to channel creative
disorder to positive ends, to find a safe balance between deadly extremes
--perhaps *that* is the challenge confronting Sinclair and his allies.

sorso@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

*****
(Comicon 7/1-2)
This report has some spoilerish stuff in it (we all know JMS never gives
away *too* much). You have been warned. BTW - all quotes are from JMS and
are as accurate as I could make them.
The bloopers were rolling when I arrived and there were some *great*
ones. My favorite was probably from "There All the Honor Lies". Lennier is
facing off with the other Minbari and the other guy says, "Since we are the
same, you may ask your questions. Bill Mumy must have drawn a blank because
he said, "Who does your bone? That is fantastic carving." :)
After that JMS opened the floor to questions. The first was "When will
we see a script by Harlan Ellison?" Answer: "When he finishes it."
He then related a story about getting a large article in _T.V. Guide_.
As he was doing the interview he was getting really sick of the questions
comparing B5 to Star Trek. Turns out that the actors were getting the same
questions. JMS didn't like it so he "did the worst thing [he] could possibly
do to this guy. [He] called Harlan [Ellison]. What does a consultant do?
Enforcer, that's what he does." So Harlan finds out that the article is
called "Babylon 5: The Show That Isn't Star Trek" and Trek became the focus
of the article. So apparently Harlan Ellison "took care" of things and the
focus of the article changed.
As for what Harlan really does - recommends style, creates characters
(the Ombuds is his), helps write the narration. As JMS said, "He is a free
floating agent of chaos. Whatever he wants to do, Harlan can do."
Where did the the shadows' appearance come from? "I said I want sort of
a spider, arachnid, crab, weird sh*t thing." Apparently from there Ron came
up with two different designs. JMS showed him the one that was most like
what he wanted. Ron said, " My condolences," and that became the shadows.
He then shared the story about the Shadow Ships. He asked Ron (the
effects guy) where the bizzare effect for the texture of those ships came
from. Ron called his dog over and explained that he computer-sampled the
dog's nose. JMS said, "Let me get this straight - our guys are being menaced
by large dog noses?" He said that he's never looked at the show the same way
since.
Who's coming back?????
We will see the "guys" at Sigma 957 once more, this year.
We won't be seeing Ironheart for a million years.
JMS is trying to bring back Dwight Schultz's character, but there are
no immediate plans.
Babylon 4 will be back.
Sinclair will be back. (more on this later)

This is JMS's overview of the show this far:
The first year was our characters glumping around the galaxy.
I actually wrote that down for our PTEN presentation...
glumping - how that's spelled, I had to find that out. Year two
is: our guys take it on the chin a lot, and they do.
Particularly in these last few episodes. Year three is our guys
fight back - in a big way. And there are some major changes
planned, for about mid-season.

There was an illusion that we may find out something along the lines of the
Earth Force being a wing of another power. Of course this was burried in a
long analogy, and this is my interpretation.
My favorite story of the session was, by far, this one. JMS got a
message from the administrator of hyperion.com. (The major www site for B5)
and he got a call from the pentagon. The pentagon wanted to send info to the
troops all over the world, since B5 has a mjor military following. The
pentagon wanted to send them the synopsis of the episodes, since they
couldn't send tapes. They were calling because they couldn't figure out how
to access hyperion.com! JMS said, "The PENTAGON - can't get on the world
wide web! Scared the hell out of me!"
When I asked why we were waiting until October to see the end of the
season we got to participate in "interactive television". JMS would start a
sentence like, "Warners in their infinate________" and an audience member
would supply a word like "stupidity" and JMS would point to that person and
then finish the statement. The end result was that Warner Brothers decided
that it would be better to hold off the last four until October and lead
right into the next season in November. One audience member suggested
sending Harlon Ellison in on them, but JMS said that that is reserved only for the "important stuff". :)
JMS did tell us the third season narration (as best he could from
memory). He wouldn't specidy who would say it, but it will be something like
this:
The Babylon Project was the last best hope for peace. It failed.
But in doing so became something greater - the last best hope for
victory. The year is 2260, the place, Babylon 5

When asked about Andrea Thompson, JMS said, "I will neither confirm nor
deny whether or not Andrea Thompson will be with the show next year. That's
all I can say."
We should see all four major homeworlds next year and maybe a few other
places.
Babylon 5 will be shown in "LetterBox" format in the U.K. next year, but
will remain wide screen here.
First season cassettes will not be available for a while yet. Warner
Brothers had made this decision and JMS is fighting it.
One of the last questions was "Is Garibaldi from the Bronx?" Answer, yes.
JMS really hemmed and hawed about telling us the season 3 title. He
finally did - but it isn't final. He's leaning towards, "I have become
Death, destroyer of Worlds."
The last question was about the parallels of Kennedy's death and
Santiago's on the show. JMS said that the scene with Clark taking oath was
staged exactly like it was when Johnson took oath on Airforce 1. As for
other parallels - it wasn't just supposed to be Kennedy's assissination, but
also WWI, WWII, Vietnam and several others. Not just one thing.
We were then given a big "hush hush" type message to come back to the
room the next day for something "really cool".

******
JMS was *incredibly* hush-hush about the reason for this session. So we
went in knowing that it was something really big, but nothing more.
The first thing we saw - before they even introduced anyone- was a video
of episode clips shown to "I Need a Hero" from the Footloose soundtrack (I
forget the artist). This was _incredibly_ well done. We gave JMS a standing
ovation for it. There was a clip for each phrase in the lyrics. Some of the
clips that went with the lines were:
"I could swear there was someone, somewhere watching me" - Sheridan
looks over his shoulder and sees Kosh standing there.
"He's got to be strong, and he's got to be fast and he's got to be
fresh from the fight"-a series of "our guys" punching someone.
"Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need" - Ivanova
tossing and turning on Sheridan's couch (when they refused to pay the
rent)

It was a lot of fun, and we asked, but JMS refused to sell it to us.

When JMS took the stage he confirmed that they were picked up for the
third season. We then did interactive television to explain about the last
four episodes being held until October.
He then showed us a tape that explained blue screen and virtual sets.
For example in "Acts of Sacrifice" (I think it is - the one with Ivanova's
really *weird* sex scene) when the alien and his little assistant came off of
their ship we see a very busy loading dock - but all that was there was the
ramp and the stairs. I was really surprised how many sets really don't exist
anywhere, but in the computer - some that you wouldn't think of - like Down
Below and the really long lines of Gropos were als o made simpler by CGI.
After explaining all of this, he explained that because they didn't have
to build all of these sets that they came in *under* budget for the first two
seasons. They got audited because of it, no one could believe they actually
came in *under* budget.

JMS then capitulated to the fans (like me who complained that work caused
them to miss the bloopers the previous day) and showed a *second* blooper
reel. He warned us that, "Actors, when they go up on a line, tend to speak
very - frankly...so if there's anyone here who wants to protect small
children from *amazing* language - leave now."
Many of them were sight gags, so my audio tapes aren't helping me
remember, but here are some of the better audio ones:

"You're talking about the cold-blooded sluther...sluther?" - CC
"But if she's sick I'm surprised you didn't call one of your own
doctors." (RB) "...... I didn't think of that" - BM
"Thirty cwedits...cwedits?" RB, "You skwewy wabbit" - JD
3 shots of BB trying to say "Taro Isogi" - each differently
"General, I'm Richard Sheridan - no I'm not!" JEJ
"Sir Captain John..." (he obviously forgets the next word) - BB
(to AT, very seriously) "What you are is what you are. You can't
change that by taking a few pills...*why* are you laughing?" JD
4 shots of JD trying to say, "Captain, begging your pardon, but have
you gone space happy?" On the fifth he just says, "Oh, f*ck it".
"Stop hogging the f*cking shot!" - JD
"Ramirez - go" "Lt. Ramirez, you're going to die at the end of
this episode. You need to pick up your check now."
(Ramirez) "I'm gonna have a great dinner on your 30 credits, Doc."
"Dream On, Get lost" - RB, "Get f*cked" - JD
from "Soul Mates" - "Med lab this is Sinclair" - BB

(Key: CC - Claudia Christian, RB - Richard Biggs, BM - Bill Mumy, JD - Jerry
Doyle, BB - Bruce Boxleitner, JEJ - James Earl Jones, AT - Andrea Thompson)

JMS then explained that he made a promise to Warner Bros. that they would
never *hear* about him showing an episode. So we had to take an oath. It
went like this:

JMS: Repeat after me, ok?
Audience: ok
JMS: I
A: I
JMS: Name
A: name (every person in the room said that! I couldn't hear one
real name from the room.)
JMS: do hearby affirm
A: do....
JMS: That I endorsed Margaret Thatcher
A: That I...
JMS: Oops, that's the parliament one. I
A: I
JMS: name
A: name
JMS: If you do that again, I'm going to pour this glass of water on
this guy .
JMS: I
A: I
JMS: The undersigned

and then there was a really long list of ways we wouldn't tell about what we
saw. (Including distribution on the Ônets) - this isn't the net - this is
e-mail right? Well, anyway - he showed one of the last 4. And it was really
good. We were the first group to ever see it. We were really impressed.
However, it does make it fairly obvious who the traitor is (of course that
was also revealed in a blooper - oops, JMS) but that is actually revealed in
the one before the one we saw.
JMS concluded with another Q&A. Some were the same as Friday's.
He did talk about the traitor in "Divided Loyalties" - not who it would
be, only that some "major" player would be exposed as a traitor in DL. (This
is probably old news, but *someone* might not have heard it yet)
He then gave the "Klingon"analogy again. He made it very clear that he
was ***not*** making a point to point comparison. This is what he said:
Imagine in Star Trek one day there was an episode in
which the Federation sold out to the Klingons and the
Enterprise became a Klingon vessel - and it *stayed*
that way. That is the magnitude [of change] we're
talking about for Babylon 5.

Having made it very clear that he was displeased with Warner Bros.
holding the last four episode he told us that it was somewhat fitting that
they adopted Michigan J. Frog as their mascot for the W.B. network.
"Something that will not perform when you want it to" - I'm not entirely
sure that I understand it, but the audience thought it was really funny, so
maybe you do to.
Remember Zanthras from "Babylon Squared"? He'll be back
When the question of the videotapes came up again, JMS explained (again)
that W.B. is holding those too. Someone then asked if the W.B. executives
were working for Paramount :)
He told the story about siccing Harlan Ellison on _T.V. Guide_
It was then 3:00 and he was thrown off the stage, but not without
thanking us (the fans) for making the show the success it is.

******
This was just a panel Q&A, no nifty videos or anything. It generally
digressed/desintigrated into banter between JMS and Peter David, and was very
entertaining.
Question one, Why don't we see torpedos in B5? JMS: We do, in Voice in
the Wilderness. Peter David then made the interestin observation that in
movies set in modern times (Hunt for Red October and the like) we can launch
a torpedo and it will track it's target. In Star Trek they launch a missle
and it goes "swoosh" -clean miss. Why can we do it now, but we can't do it
then?
Hmm...some of this Q&A had to be locked in the Purple Files (deals with
what was divulged on Saturday)
BIG SPOILER!!! He did tell us about a third season script. G'Kar and
Londo are trapped in a transport tube after an explosion. Londo says they
have to work together to get out. G'Kar says, no - I want to see you die.
So Londo says, oh- you want to kill me fine. G'Kar says no, if I *kill* you
there will be profound consequences, but if I do nothing and watch you die...
So Londo says that G'Kar will die too and G'Kar says, fine - it'll be worth
it. And the whole episode progresses they stay like this. As they finally
get found they are lying on the floor breathing the last of the oxygen the
converasation seems to go like this:
Londo: Idiot
G'Kar: Fool
Londo: I hate my life
G'Kar: I hate it too.
Londo: Shut up.

More semi-spoilers: The first three third seasons titles are - in order:
Matters of Honor
Convictions
A Day in the Strife (the one I just described)

The next question was, "Is Delenn becoming a `space groupie'?" (Because
she was interested in Sinclair, he left and now she's interested in
Sheridan). JMS explained it like this, "There can be a close proximity
relationship that may not be based on romantic love, but something else,
which we'll explore in the third season."
Someone then asked the panel to introduce themselves <!>. JMS said he
was Rondo Hafman (?), Peter David said, "Call me Ishmael" and JMS pointed to
Michael O'Hare and said, "And this is Elanore Roosevelt."
Another Warner Bros. Story - JMS wanted something released and they
wouldn't do it. So JMS is screaming over the phone and says something to the
effect of "I'll stick a knife in his heart if he doesn't release it. - a
*small* comment" So it gets back to his partner, Doug Netter and Doug says,
"Did you say that you were gonna stab this guy in the back?" JMS said, "No,
I'm gonna stab him in the chest so I can see his eyes when he goes down."
Apparently Doug Netter gets a lot of phone calls from people saying, "Do
you know what he (JMS) has done *now*?"
The guy next to me asked a strange question, "Michael, I'm sure working
with Joe is very nice, but can yu say anything about it?"
Michael said, "He's a wonderful dancer. But well, I'm Elenore Franklin
(sic) I lead if I want to dammit. Working with Joe is great. He has an open
door policy, he fields a lot of ideas the actors have," and as he's saying
this, looking at the audience JMS is looking at him like he's nuts. Like he
*would never* do any of those things he was being accused of. The audience
kept laughing at JMS's expressions and Michael it took Michael a while to
catch on.
Micheal's other works basically consisted of a movie called "By a Thread"
playing in Europe, it might come here if it gets a distributer.
I asked where all the extras came from and Peter David started chanting
"contest, contest, contest...", JMS added, "we usually go to prison work
programs". In reality they are bound to the screne extras guild. (bummer)
In talking about really great actors They told about Peter Jurasik doing
the whole banquet scene (where he's up on the table and passes out) in *one*
take! And he really hit the table hard. There's a little fruit jar next to
head and a little fruit pops out and lands next to his head.
That lead to this story by JMS:
Our actors kind of get carried away sometimes. There was one
shot in the episode, in "In the Shadow of Zha'Ha'Dum", where
Talia is slapping Sheridan. And she really got into that. She
hit him so hard, that the sound you hear on the episode is not,
in fact, added. That's the actual sound of her sluggin' him! He
lost his line. He forgot his line for a second and said, "What
the hell was that?!?!"

Peter David did an *outstanding* impression of Londo. He was talking
about the first take for the scene in "Soul Mates" - the wives are going at
it and Vir is about to loose his mind and Londo walks in and says, "Well,
well, well and here you all are" in that big blustery Londo Molari voice.
Well apparently the first time he did it the *crew* fell apart.
One of the very few times Mira Furlan ever lost it was in trying to do
the really long eating ritual scene from "Confessions and Lamentations".
"The Geometry of Shadows" and "The Coming of Shadows" were sent to the
acadamy to be considered for Emmy nomintaion, but JMS feels that they will
probably be blown off because it is science fiction. It cost $60,000 to do
this so they hope it will get them some notice.
The next question was, where did "Psi-Corps" come from?
Peter David answered, "I thought you'd say it just popped into my mind
one day."
As another digression JMS told us that the head of the English division
of Mensa has formed a splinter division of Mensa and is calling it
"Psi-Corps". "If that doesn't scare you, well, it scares the hell out of
me!" JMS said. What made it even worse is that the guy has never seen the
show!
Peter David then interjected with, "But it's ok, because all they do is
sit around at their meetings and go <big sigh>, hense *psi*-corps."
[Probably actually "Sigh-corps" -WBE]
We all moaned.
So then he gave the real reason for the psi-corps - the need to protect
the telepaths and they need to keep the telepaths "in-line" so the
governement creats a group to "regulate" telepathy and then it becomes the
Psi-Corps.
There is an episode of the comic coming out soon that gives the history
of teh Psi-Corps - but it turns out that the whole thing is really a
Psi-Corps brochure. Like it says that a telepath saved the president's life
so they invented the Psi-Corps.
"No - it's because we're all paranoid"
Michael O'Hare then added, "How are they going to get prospective
psi-corp people to buy the comic book? They'll just pick it up and say, `I
know.'"
Staying with the Psi-Corp theme the next question was, will there be
anymore episodes about the Psi-Corp?
JMS informed us that there will not be in the last four, except in one
where Lyta Alexander returns from the pilot. She is on the run from the
Psi-Corps and has news that one of our guys is a traitor. "And one of them
is - big time."
There was some, IMHO, boring discussion on Londo and G'Kar being tragic
figures. But this interesting point was made by JMS,
Certainly in many ways Londo is a tragic figure, no
mistake about it. But in a way so is G'Kar. G'Kar is,
to some extent, modeled after Cassandra, of Greek
mythology. This is a woman who was given the power
of premonition by the Gods. And she would always
know what was going to happen, but *no one would
ever believe her*. And she ended up in the service of
Aggamemnon. Well, look what ship Sheridan came
from...yeah, work it out"

Next topic: Will Sheridan ever go to Zha' Ha Dum? "At some point,
possibly in the third season"
The purpose of the third season is to pull together all of the threads
that were set up in the second season.
What happened to the CD Rom? Comptons scaled down from 300 titles to 35!
So there are 4 offers from other companies to do it. JMS thinks it will be
"extrodonarily cool". He's going to have information on it that hasn't been
aired yet, but it will be encoded. So if you type in "shadows", the screen
will go black and a voice will say, "What do you want?" But if you enter
"Zha' Ha Dum" which is where the shadows are from the computer knows you've
seen that episode and all kinds of data will come up. (I think this is a
*really* cool idea) It will also have some "making of" stuff on it. It will
take you from script writing to costume and set design and see the shooting
and have the dailies on it. You can then take the dailies and edit them
yourselves in different ways drop in the music and make your own 30 second
scene.
A great Bill Mumy story. In one epidsode he had to meditate. JMS didn't
write the chant so Bill asked JMS what he was supposed to say. JMS told him
to just make it up. So Bill did, "Za Ba Ga Bee". JMS knew he had heard that
somewhere but couldn't place it. So he let it go. Once the show *aired* he
realized that "Zabagabee" (sp?) was the name of one of Bill Mumy's albums!
So after it airs, he pulls Bill aside and says, "Don't ever do that to me
again - I will hurt you bad."
Bill is incredibly jealous of Mira now because she doesn't have the big
head piece anymore and her hearing isn't obscured. He apparently said to Joe
(as relayed by Peter David), "Could we just have Lennier crack open the
cocoon a few fatal moments early? And he's bathed in a weird light, and his
bone falls off."
JMS replied with, "If you want to be female, yeah, we could work that
out. If you want to do the whole show in drag for three years. Of course
with the costume he wears you couldn't tell the difference."
Michael O'Hare talked about the end of "Parliment of Dreams" - the scene
where Sinclair introduces all these people from "dominent" Earth religions.
They used real people from the various religions and Michael had to go and
ask them their names. JMS says that he went down the whole length of the
central corridor and got each name. After one time he went back to the top
and got even the very difficult names right. 30 people and their religions.
So Michael says that he went and wrote them all down and had about 20 minutes
in his trailor to learn them. JMS just looked at him, and said, "Mine was a
better story, Michael". Peter David (and the audience) were still impressed.

I asked about the scene with G'Kar's moving dinner and the line, "stay
put" being an ad lib. I asked if there were others - unfortunately he says
there were not.
Then something very intersting happened. JMS relayed a little bit of the
disaster that accompanied The Big Bang Convention. It seems that Michael
O'Hare only had a verbal agreement with those people and they ended up
refusing to pay him. The other four actors who did recieved check, found
that they were all bad. Well, they are taking legal action against them for
the bad checks, but Michael was still up a creek. So what JMS did was hold
an auction right there. What he auctioned off were 5 places for names of
fans to be used in an episode. The highest bidder would be a major (one
time) character, on down to just a passing refernce of the fan's name.
Bidding started at $200. The final wind up was: $900, $800, $750, $720 and
$650. All of the money went directly to Michael O'Hare. Now, I have no
idea what people get paid to do convention appearances, but it seemed to me
that close to $4000 was a lot - until Peter told us how Michael O'Hare came
to appear at Comicon.
Michael called Peter David and said that he understood that Peter was the
guest of honor at Comicon. Well, because of all the brew-ha-ha with Big Bang
many fans didn't go (like me). So Michael asked to appear at Comicon so that
fans who wanted to meet cast members, but avoided Big Bang, could have a
chance. Peter told him that Comicon could pay him for appearing and Michael
said that he didn't care - this was for the fans.
Moving on, JMS told us about his opprotunity to play cops and robbers in
the dealers room. There was a shop-lifter in the dealers' room. They tried
to grab him, but he bolted. So JMS tackled him. If you've ever seen JMS -
you know that he is *not* a man you want tackling you! He's a big person!
So JMS wrestles this guy to the floor and holds him for the cops.
So one of the organizers comes over and says to the guy, "Do you know who
this is? You were arrested by a celebrity!"
The guy says, "F*ck you."
Back to the B5 universe, the question was asked if Peter David would ever
play a Centauri. Peter said, "I don't know *why* you would want that -
besides it would be redundant."
JMS was asked what he'd do after the 5 years of B5 (he's worrying about
getting it done first - then he'll worry about later) but the comment that
was brought up was to do Merchandizing. So Peter David yells out, "They
aren't some Deep Space Franchize!"
JMS then told *another* story. After Peter submitted the script for
"There All the Honor Lies" he calls up and asked if that line will be left
in. Joe says, "yeah," like, "why wouldn't I?" and Peter says, "You *are*
dangerous, aren't you?"
On a more serious note, if PTEN folds, B5 will not go to the WB network.
WB said that they will move B5 into direct syndication through WB
distribution.
JMS said that he did have the idea that it would be very cool to pan
across the Zocolo and see Mike and the 'Bots from MST3K. He told his wife,
who told him to lay down until it passes. (I say we start a letter writing
campaign to see this:)
Q: Do any of the other major characters have Minabari souls?
JMS: Next question
Hmmmm.........
Turns out the comic got ahead of the t.v. show and there will be a
comic with a spoiler in it. It has something to do with who is
working for the shadows.
Speaking of the traitor...What will happen to that person? "They
will go away for a very long time."
Shooting for season 3 begins on July 31.

On a personal note...
During the course of the weekend someone made the comment to me that JMS
has a mind like a steel trap. During the autograph session following this
panel, I learned exactly how true that was.
On Friday JMS had signed a picture that I had brought (and gave me one,
too) and I spelled my name for him due to the unconventional spelling.
On Sunday I was spelling it for Michael O'Hare as he was signing my
convention pass and I said, "K-y-m" and JMS who was sitting next to Michael,
said, "b-e-r-l-e-e." My jaw just dropped. People I send e-mail to on a
daily basis don't remember how to spell my name!

*****
Jeannette Simpson (faa35@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: Here follows some random thoughts on Psi Corps, Talia Winters and
: Delenn.

: First a question. Who created Psi Corps?

: I would be interested in knowing if the original intent when Psi Corps
: was created was to genuinely protect the 'ordinary' citizen from
: uncontrolled scans by untrained telepaths. In a society where it was
: known that a certain few had psi ability it would be necessary to
: set up some form of control. How else could 'ordinary' people be
: comfortable around psis except by being confident that they are not
: being scanned without their knowledge or consent.

It seems that 'normal' people's paranoia pushed those with
psi ability away, out of normals lives. As to who created
Psi-corps...it must have been a psi. Angry and embittered about
being ostracized and realising the potential power of a focused
group of psis, he/she probably installed the Corps is mother,
Corps is father attitude. With that kind of mental power
and the inherent evil of humanity, it was only a matter
of time before Psi-corps started to pull some strings.

: Psis are brought up within the Corps and then work *for* the Corps, or
: within the government or the commercial world. Do psis work for Earth
: Force? (Is psis a valid word?)

Psis (I'll go along with its validity if you will) *only*
work for the Corps, don't they? There was Stoner, but it looks
as if he was actually still a member. The question is probably
does Earth Force work for the Corps???

: Amongst themselves do psis communicate telepathically?

Now that would be gutsy. An episode with entire conversations
with only facial expressions!

: Have we asked ourselves just why the Psi Corps, presumably with the
: backing of the Earth Government