This is the only flaw in the AI theory. Let's get some serious discussion
going. First lets boil it down to the following: Control can only be one
of the following "people":
1) AI. ie. A computer intelligence.
2) Psicop Bester, Mathew Stoner, Tech #2, Zack Allen or Mr. Morden.
3) Somebody not previously seen on the show.
The Command staff can be eliminated because it's not in character for
any male member of the cast to be "in" with a rogue element of the
government. Sheridan is in on the General Hague anti-conspiracy.
Dr. Franklin is too much of a humanitarian and helped the underground
telepaths. Garibaldi was too close to Sinclair to have been betraying
his trust for so long and he's always getting a hard time from people
in Earthgov. If he was that well connected, he wouldn't have such
problems. Not only that, but Control authorized the killing of Talia
Winters. Garibaldi would never do that. Eliminate Keffer because
he doesn't have the access you would need to be a useful Control.
Eliminate the non-human males simply because there's no reason for
any non-human to want the Free Mars movement crushed. Mars independence
is a human problem and the players will all be human if I know jms. So
the above are the two reasons for my limited list 2).
A computer AI isn't all that plausible simply because it is referred
to as "he". It's possible that it wants to be called "he" but I
doubt it. It's also not resonable for an AI to say: "I don't BELIEVE
the Bureau is at hazard." unless it's a really advanced AI. The only
hope I see for the AI theory is that it's some sort of Cyberkinetic.
What I mean is: someone who can communicate and interact with a
computer telepathically. Sort of like the cyber-zombie but in reverse.
Instead of putting a computer in a human body, you put a human
consciousness in a computer and Control it. It's pretty far-fetched
but it would support the "Control is prepared to go online" line.
Control was told to "follow up". The next too episodes involved
telepaths coming to B5 for whatever reason. Mathew Stoner came to
supposedly check on Talia, but if he really wanted to make Talia
come with him he just would have made her do it. Also, he said:
"You've surrounded yourself with tough guys", as if he was making
a judgement about the hazards facing the Bureau. He warned Sheridan
to "drop it" regarding Psicorps. What better name for someone who
can control peoples minds than Control. He's my #2 pick for Control.
It's especially fitting since jms can say: "look, he controls peoples
minds, of course he's control." Note that Control does not have to
be someone who is always onstation.
My #3 pick is Bester. He followed up right after that by coming to
B5 to find the underground railroad. He hates Free Mars (see Voices)
and has the personality to be Control. He evaluated the command staff
though and said things like: "I was hoping Sheridan would be more
supportive of the Corps" etc... The main problem is that he isn't
appearing in any more episodes this season. That doesn't mean he
can't be revealed as Control, but makes it less likely. Also, it
doesn't look like he would have gone to B5 if not for the underground
telepaths.
Tech#2 is a possibility because he's well positioned for information
and he's been getting a lot of lines lately. Other than that, there's
nothing that really points to him like there was with Jack and the
body in "And the Sky Full of Stars". I don't like Zack Allen as Control
either because he seemed unenthused about finding Dr. Jacobs, and
because I think he's a Ranger. Also, having another bad security guy
would be a little much.
My #1 pick for Control is: Mr. Morden. He hasn't contacted either
Sheridan or Sinclair for a reason: He's already hooked up with
"the new order" coming on Earth. President Clarke, Bureau 13, PsiCorps
etc... I will say this: There's something significant about Mars that
goes beyond the Earth Alliance political structure. Mars MUST remain
in the EA and it goes beyond mere politics. Bester says in the book
Voices pg.7: "If you find something of value here on Mars, it may be
priceless." When asked about the training facility in Syria Planum
he dodges the question and says: "We can't tell anyone about it, because
we're the only ones who can keep it a secret." Also, there is evidence
of alien materials discovered on Mars in the book Accusations. Another
thing to be considered is that telepaths were discovered around 2150 at
or around the same time we colonized mars (I asked jms). In other
words, whatever's in Syria Planum has to do with telepathy and aliens.
Since Kosh is unusually interested in telepathy I assume that the
Shadowmen would be as well. This is where Morden fits in. He's an
agent of the Shadowmen and I believe he has a connection to Bureau13
and many other "deceased" individuals. I believe that the Shadowmen
want Mars to remain in the EA, that they Control Bureau 13 and that
Mr. Morden is the go-between. Email me for more, because the rest
constitutes a story idea.
The last possibility is that it's someone we haven't seen yet. But,
jms is an english scholar and usually chooses his words wisely and
precisely ("words mean what they mean; not what you want them to mean")
and he said: Control is REVEALED. The choice of the word "revealed"
indicates that it should be someone we've already seen.
Your serve.
--
*** There are moments in your life when everything crystallizes. ***
*** When the whole world reshapes itself, right down to its ***
*** component molecules, and everything changes. I've looked ***
*** upon the face of a Vorlon...and nothing's the same anymore. ***
*****
The following is the best estimate I can come up with for the station as
we see it (I'm sorry if it's a bit long). Likely there are details of
it that are wrong, but it's a start. The information is based on a
number of sources.
Marc Carlson
IMC@vax2.utulsa.edu
/\ /\ /\
-||-||-||----------------
-||-||-||------------------------------------------
|\ ||-------------| || || ||| | | | | | ---- ----
||------|| |----------\ | | | | | ---|--- |
||------|| |----------/ | | | | | ---|--- |
|/ ||-------------| || || ||| | | | | | ---- ----
-||-||-||-----------------------
|| || ||
\/ \/ \/
..........................|.......|...|.....|......|...|.|.............|....
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^
| | | | | || | | | |
| | | | Green || | | | Docking bay
| | | | section || | | Cobra bays
| | | | || | Med lab/Iso lab
| | | | || Blue section
| | | | the Red section
| +---|-----|-------Garden-------+
| | Gray section
| Brown section
Fusion reactor ^ ^
| |
| |
+-----Rotating Portion of the Station---------+
(Initial Source: Cinefantastique Feb 1993. Station sketch is based on original
Ascii art by Richard Meikle and posted by Winchell Chung, Modified by I. Marc
Carlson to closer match dimensions shown in "Points of Departure")
Areas of Interest (according to JMS' postings, the Cinefantastique article,
etc).:
Yellow Sector: Non rotating sections, 0g cargo bays, Fusion Engines,
etc.
Blue Sector: Maintenance and operations areas such as the docking
bays, the Customs areas, and the Observation Dome/C&C.
There are hospitals and medlabs. Some living areas.
Gray Sector: Wraps around The Garden. Alien Sector.
Water and Waste reclamation systems are on decks 49-51
of blue and gray sectors.
Red Sector: Wraps around The Garden. Marketplace and business areas
such as the Zocolo, casinos, bars, brothels, a bookstore
The Garden: A large botanical area that runs the center, lengthwise,
of the station. It is an O'Neill environment, which
enables an observer to look straight up to the other
side of the rotating section. Lining the circular wall
are some farmlands, orchards, an open air hedge maze,
fields, trees, artificial lakes, Hydroponics gardens and
other areas for oxygen reclamation. There are other
areas where alien food is grown, as well as an area
where food that is impractical to grow is synthesized.
Other foods are imported. Weather can occur in the
Garden area.
Green Sector: Wraps around The Garden. Ambassadorial Suites.
Brown Sector: Wraps around The Garden.
Topside: Coloquialism for the areas where the regular crew and
staff operate.
Dockside: Coloquialism for the docking areas.
Downbelow: Coloquialism for the the areas, particularly in Brown
Sector, which are "below" where the regular crew
operate. This *may* indicate areas of higher than 1 G.
Downbelow is inhabited mostly by Lurkers.
Internal Coordinates:
These are based first on color, denoting a "ring" or "sector", each
technically separate, but interconnected. These consist of Blue, Gray,
Red, Green, Brown, etc.; then one of 36 "sector" numbers (Perhaps each
denoting a 10 degree region around the station's circumference); then a
"level" or a deck number (for instance Blue 15A).
B5 Dimensions:
According to the Map in "Points of Departure" the station's total length
is X; the diameter of the largest rotating cross section is .094X; the
maximum length of heat radiator vanes from "top" to "bottom" is .26X. The
Fork/stabilizer is aproximately .094X long, although it only extends .075X
out from the main body of the station. It, and all non-rotating sections
are coded as Yellow. The foremost rotating section (the face of which is
.04X in diameter.) is colored Blue, and extends for .189X. The next
section is Gray and is .019X long. The next, Red, section is .047X long.
The next section is of a darker color that may be Brown is .085X long.
The next section is Green and is .075X long. The next section is dark,
and is .057X long. Thus the rotating section is .547X long. The section
housing the radiator vanes is .103X long and the final section, housing
the fusion reactors is .35X long.
Physical Dimensions (My best estimate):
Station Length: 8 kms (5 miles)
Diameter of Rotating Section: 752 meters (.47 miles)
Diameter of Blue Sector: 319 meters
Maximum Gravity (based on .5 rotation per minute):
1.97 G (10,306 cm/s^2)
C&C Distance from Axis: 125 meters
Gravity of C&C: .33 G (3,234 cm/s^2)
Maximum 10m Decks: 37 (n.b. there may well be fewer or
more decks than this. I note these
simply as a standard)
Deck 5: .27 G (2,646 cm/s^2)
Deck 6: .33 G (3,234 cm/s^2)
Deck 10: .51 G (4,998 cm/s^2)
(I assume that this is the gravity in Earhart's)
Deck 20: 1.02 G (9,996 cm/s^2)
(I assume that this is the gravity at the "Floor" of the Garden)
Total Radiator Length: 2 km
Fork/Stabilizers Length: 752 meters
Fork Extention: 599 meters
Blue Sector Length: 1513 meters
Gray Sector Length: 152 meters
Red Sector Length: 377 meters
Dark Sector Length: 679 meters
Green Sector Length: 600 meters
Dark Sector Length: 456 meters
Vane Section Length: 824 meters
Fusion Section Length: 2800 meters
-------------
Total Length 8000 meters
Station Mass: 2.5x10^12 grams (Minimum, Superstructure Only))
4x10^12 grams (Estimated, including Air and
Biomass))
Station's Actual Gravity based on Mass:
2.7x10^-13 cm/s^2 (Minimum)
4.34x10^13 cm/s^2 (Estimated)
Orbital Radius (Estimated): 100,000 km and 100,000 km behind E-3-A
The Vortex Generator appears to be about 10,000 km
away (Based on speed of ships in "Points of Departure",
given in "GROPOS")
*****
Well, during the long dark of re-runs, I decided to track down
the other things that JMS has written, as well as some references that
he has mentioned. Even though new episodes are about to swamp the
newsgroup with fresh speculation, perhaps these bookish comments will
be of interest and encourage others to do similar reading. And yes,
B5 does come up in various places.
The books were surprisingly easy to find, actually; they were all in
either the local library or a used book store. I'm not going to give
a synopsis of anything, but there may be mild spoilers for people who
have not yet read JMS' novels. If you *really* don't want to know
anything about them, very well -- save this message, and go read them
first. With that out of the way, here we go in chronological order...
THE COMPLETE BOOK OF SCRIPTWRITING - JMS, 1982ISBN 0-89879-078-6
Despite a lot of educational nitty-gritty that helps immensely to
understand how B5 was produced, this is actually a quite entertaining
book; plenty of humor and several flashes of insight into JMS'
background. The only disappointment is that no more recent edition
appears to have been written, despite this passage from page 72:
"A Look at the Future"
One nice thing about this book is the fact that my contract
with Writer's Digest Books requires that future editions be revised
periodically to keep up with any changes in the areas it covers.
...
It's been 13 years, so apparently something went wrong. A great
pity, since this really is an excellent and highly educational
reference. Anyone know the story?
DEMON NIGHT - JMS, 1988 ISBN 0-525-24646-0
This is the first JMS novel. I don't usually like or read this
kind of book so can't really judge how well this one succeeds as an
example of the horror genre. It strikes me as a well-crafted, fairly
conventional story along Stephen King lines (to the extent of being
set in a small New England town), but thankfully not as long-winded.
There are a lot of things in this book that rang a bell of one
kind or another when I ran across them:
- Many explicit and implicit references to Jung, including
a discussion of "Man and His Symbols" by the characters.
For example, "quadricornutus serpens" appears, along with the
exclamation "Jung was right". (p.74)
- Cyclic war between light and dark, with humans as soul-vehicles
and an enhanced human as guardian.
- Initial demonic breakthrough is effected by injuring a body
to the point where the soul can be easily ejected and
replaced by demon-stuff.
- The demons feed on something that is either insubstantial or
secreted in the brain. (cf Nakaleen feeder)
- Demonic possession is heralded by a "murmur of bees".
- The resulting demon-body combo becomes stronger with time; too
strong, unless destroyed within 3 days by (1) sunlight,
(2) fire, or (3) separating head from body.
- "I can give you only the gift of understanding. With this,
the power within you will come to full bloom." (p.242,
along with other good stuff from hero's guide/father)
(cf Ironheart-Talia, Kosh-Sheridan)
- A lot of people die, gruesomely. There are only two characters
that the reader can guess will emerge safely; everyone else
has a more or less equal likelihood of meeting a horrible fate.
There is also a rather peculiar interaction between technology and
the supernatural throughout the book that comes up again later in
"OtherSyde". Anything that is too technical for the average person to
understand is apparently fair game to be influenced by demonkind, as
if any device that seems like magic in real life is automatically
considered to *BE* magical and hence operates as irrationally as
demons. For example, the demons can kill cars and the entire power
supply grid, as well as "infect" the telephone system and monitor
radio waves, although good ole sunlight and fire are the death of
them. Sigh. I'd call this "technomyth" or "technomagic". More
comments later about this...
But was it scary? Yes; don't read it at night. I rather liked
the ending, though. (Sniffle)
TALES FROM THE NEW TWILIGHT ZONE - JMS, 1989 ISBN 0-553-28286-7
Of the 4 JMS books, I enjoyed this one the most. Not only are the
stories varied and interesting, he adds a great deal of background
about himself as well as about the episodes. Between this book and
"Scriptwriting" I found a lot to confirm the sense of integrity that
has been evinced (and sometimes debated) on the net.
OTHERSYDE - JMS, 1990 ISBN 0-525-24873-0
This was definitely the most disturbing book. It felt to me more
like a catharsis than a novel, with Roger pinch-hitting for JMS. I
have no idea whether this is an accurate perception, but that's how it
felt and the thought that this might be true is like a slug in the gut.
Anyway, because this was written the most recently, perhaps it
isn't surprising that it contains the most echoes of stuff we've seen
in Babylon 5. Here are some of the things that struck me (whether
they actually have any significance or not):
- Demonic possession from the very first page. And as for "Demon Night" but to an even greater extent, this novel The implications of this technomagic, combined with the Anyway, now for a few non-JMS books:
MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS - Carl Jung, 1964 ISBN 0-385-05221-9 The first chapter of this book was written by Jung himself and is
THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES - Joseph Campbell Interesting and worth a look (it *is* a classic after all), but
THE POWER OF MYTH - Joseph Campbell, with Bill Moyers, 1988 I liked this MUCH better. I think it's probably also better than There were two things I found particularly odd, however. One is Anyway, I'd like to close out this post with an excerpt from "The ----------------------------------- CAMPBELL: It is the function of the artist to do this. The artist is MOYERS: What about those others who are ordinary, those who are not CAMPBELL: I'll tell you a way, a very nice way. Sit in a room and Thanks, JMS. And happy reading, everyone... --Ken
-> Have you considered combining your thoughts re Sheridan as The Hand, with jms'
-> We've seen Sheridan being told he is the hand, but remember that the words
Aaarrgl!!! The Hand... as in 5 fingers.... as in Babylon 5 maybe This really is putting the speculation back into sf isn't it! (PS - I still maintain Kosh is an angel, as in a discorporated PJP (Whose wife is as big a fan as he is. Now if only she'd stop Peter | Lorraine,30:Cheers, Peter | Lorraine * 1st 2.00e #339 * But what if Kosh is really Zathras' evil twin? ***** While wondering what secrets Ivanova has, I was wondering about her We know Ivanova didn't care for the president who was killed (or was If anyone is CONTROL or is aware of CONTROL it is Ivanova. I find it ***** I think perhaps the same is true of the phrase "too much Babylon 5." ***** This lends a bit of credence to the theory that the Earth/Minbari War may "If there is a doom on this station, then you have brought it here." ***** The idea of Kosh existing in dimensions human beings aren't aware of has been If Shadows, too, exist in such a dimension, we can understand how the suddenly There is a difficulty with this, however. How can this existence be I suggest that this is a dimension where souls communicate... the "characters" If so, the Vorlons may feel guilty - or simply curious. Is this why Kosh was TAtHL is the first time in almost two years that we see Delenn --alta Owing to the fact that I am in one of the U.S. television markets that are Most Seemingly Straightforward Remark Loaded With A Hidden Agenda Delenn to Lennier: "I've been studying Sheridan at great length. Least Convincing Moment in the Episode When Ashan (Shouldn't that be "Ashann," given the Minbari predilection First Thing, Let's Space All the Lawyers I agree with previous posters that the inclusion of Sheridan's (1) She is to be a recurring guest character whom we'll see again. (2) The conspiracy to have Sheridan removed from his command was NOT (3) Corey's role was an inelegant means to heighten the tension by On balance, I suspect a combination of options (1) and (3)--hoping for Doomed, Doomed, Doomed! I am on record as speculating that JMS is going to have Lennier Best Moment of Back-Referencing Vir to Londo: "I'm caught between fire and flood." The use of the Worst Moment of Back-Referencing: Sheridan's clumsy use of the phrase "all alone in the night" had all Planet of the Dysfunctional Families There have been a number of posts discussing Londo's motives for Fantasy Casting Suggestion Number 82 Follow-up on the preceding paragraph: In a previous posting, I sexton@cis.ohio-state.edu (jason eric sexton) writes: >Does anybody know off-hand in what episode it was said to Ivanova, >Was it Sinclair or possibly Ivanova's Rabbi? Or was it ever said Two possibilities come to mind if it is NOT from a previous episode (and First Possibility: Ivanova was making it up on the spur of the moment, Second Possibility: It's something she learned from Kosh's Ship on
***** I haven't figured out the dynamic just yet. How did they get her to do ***** Megs have been written about what Kosh's gem "You have always been here." Both statements seem to refer to some world, or existence, which is other Sinclair is "still inside", and Sheridan has "always been here"... or has ***** I think that JMS should see it as well. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ atomicp@aol.com (AtomicP) Wrote: (I know he doesn't post here. Consider it thanks to the winds.) Thank you, JMS, for giving me a television show about people who live Thank you, JMS, for giving me a show about people who have beliefs Thank you, JMS, for giving me a story, rather than a merchandising Thank you, JMS, for letting the universe be both horrible and Thank you, JMS, for thinking of the ending of the story first, not Thank you, JMS, for sparing us a whining psychobabbling wench like Thank you, JMS, for throwing Political Correctness in the trash can
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hear Hear! Well put! ***** Not that it was bad, mind you, but at least to me, it painted an President Clark's isolationist policies bringing him to a new high But what really hit me hard was what went on with the ambassadors. The only ambassador who was shown having any interest in peace and All in all, this episode really made it seem like the B5 universe On another positive note, though, I was really impressed by all the Regards, ***** At first, I wrote off her changes in character to poor acting or perhaps She's done something that -- probably -- has never been done before Other random thoughts: I don't think Vir will die. Londo is a classic He is the only other person who knows the full extent of Londo's folly Another thought: I think Lennier will betray Delenn. Lennier, although My, but I ramble.. ***** ***** 9: Some bigwig annoys Ivonova 8: Some bigwig annoys Geribaldi 7: Ambasador Kosh wears a black encounter suit. 6: A Star Fury goes up against anything more powerful that a package of 5: Someone tells Bester that his fashion sense is disgusting. 4: Londo wants somebody's job. 3: The Agamemnon appears. 2: Earth Force comes up with another money-making idea. and the number one way to know when someone is gonna die: 1: Morden appears and wonders "gee, is this thing set to stun?" ***** At one level, the folks in B5 are ordinary people, but on another ***** Look at that opening shot! She must be four stories up! What do "Recent polls indicate a growing dissatisfaction with the time, The problem with success. Everyone takes it for granted. Everyone Act One Londo. This guy is good. We learned in the first episode, G'Kar. ***FIRST aggressive pursuit by reporter***. "Are you saying I know the Corwin interview has been posted to death, but I just Sheridan. "You were originally a starship captain, correct?" Boy, Franklin. He says he was just a kid (and by implication, his Act Two Senator Quantrell. Talkman gets mildly agressive, "Not exactly a Sheridan. Before, Sheridan could've pointed out that there's a Ivan-Nova. After Talkman mispronounces her name, Susan turns and Garibaldi. He picked the wrong 24 hours to be bored in. Kosh. Seems everybody's curious about him and his race. Delenn. Glad to see the crystaline structures from Babylon 5 comic More on Delenn. Three years ago almost no one was allowed to even Act Three G'Kar and Londo. G'Kar's story of Centauri and Narn meeting is Psi-Corp propaganda. The most insidious thing about this Act Four Senator Quantrell. This takes place after the ISN trip to B5. "After considerable negotiations, we've been allowed back into Knowing that it's being filmed, Sheridan does some on-camera Cynthia Talkman. While being generally ambiguous earlier (she's Finale Garibaldi. Glad to see him. He may have been among the busiest Londo. After his stand during the crisis, his smooth words seem a Delenn. Finally, the reporter gets what she may have been looking Senator Quantrell. The most accurate thing he said during the Sheridan. She rarely got tough with him at all through the show. Preview
Congratulations! You're the fourth of seven people expected to Rodney Walker ***** MURHPY'S LAWS OF COMBAT ... CLIP CLOP CLIP CLOP <BANG> CLIP CLOP: Amish drive-by shooting. ***** ***** This previous Sunday I saw the episode, "In the Shadow of Z'ha'Dum". It "Star Trek: The Next Generation" was, for me, an oasis in a desert of rather Babylon 5, at first blush, was a disappointment. The show didn't appear to Then, at the end of the first season, I tuned in again and saw "Sky full of As I watched, I saw Londo transform from a buffoon into possibly one of the Yes, Virginia, there was consistent character development in a series. Then there was the plot... The backplot of B5 just began sucking me in so The episodes since "Coming of Shadows" have been hot and cold, but they still Then came "In the Shadow of Z'ha'Dum". At the end of the episode, I realized I "Signs & Portents" gave me the questions to innocently ask, "In the Shadow Think about it (Hint: "Answers are a prison to yourself"). Just looking at the *titles* for the upcoming episodes fills me with I can't think of a series that has played with my mind and my expectations to Add to that the fact that we now really care about these characters. This is TRAGEDY. And not just any tragedy, but *good* tragedy. A tragic Good grief! I'm totally hooked on B5 now. Babylon 5 is now, to me, the best Babylon 5 has transcended itself from popcorn escapist entertainment to enter Thank you, JMS. There was a vacuum after TNG left the air, and you have more Please re-direct all FLAMES to /dev/null or to some alt.* group I don't read. Just for the record: I still like TNG. Travers Naran, sci-fi fan for 12 years and counting... ***** Top 10 reasons to invest your 401K savings in Babylon 5 properties
10. Narnskin shoes and purses may be coming back in style. 9. The Vidal Sassoon Hair Academy is opening a branch campus in the 8. The Drazi factor: There is a historical correlation between the length 7. Two words: Spoo futures. 6. Someone had the good sense to answer: "A sustainably expanding economy 5. The Bab-Bear-lon 5 teddy bear is all the rage on Earth and the Non- 4. The Minbari designate Babylon 5 as the premiere off-world site for 3. After viewing the holovideo published by the investment brokerage 2. Two and a half million tons of spinning metal? Whew! That'll make a And the number one reason you should invest your 401K savings in Babylon 5 Ivanova's Law: No boom today? Boom tomorrow. There's _always_ a boom Marc A. Criley ***** Look at her situation: The shadows are coming and the Vorlons are the Add to that the fact that she's keeping a secret that gives her Hell, I stop combing my hair if I've got a project due. Also, I think she knows more stuff that she's not even telling
[*The Coventry story is generally considered to be a myth if you read ***** After watching Spider in the Web for about the 100th time, the fog Control is on B5, First lets go down the list of suspects. 1. Sinclair, off station. Control is on B5. 3. Ivanova, I feel JMS has better plans for her than to be Control. 4. Garibaldi, if he was Control he would pass along the info that 5. Dr. Franklin, no way, he has his hands full with the underground 6.Talia Winters, no way watch the show. 7.Keffer, as Z-wing commander he would be off station to much to be 8. all non-humans, as others have stated Mars is an Earth problem, 9. Computer AI, Earth is to far behind on tech to have that kind of AI. 10. Tech#2, a chance he is Control, but he is a better choice as Control's 11. Someone unknown at this time, JMS likes to put it in our face and and drum roll please......... 13. Zack Allen, this is our man. When Sheridan is talking to Horne, Zack ***** It's all in the details. Things like the blinking raised buttons on the Not to mention that there were various shots that were flyby's in close And again, the long duration of the effect shots. Even simple scenes, if ***** Now, she's a freak, a laughingstock, an exile. The Gray Council cast her And now this human reporter pretends to be her friend, lulls her into a ***** Owie. ***** ***** *****
*I don't like the idea that humans are too dumb to see that the I understand where you're coming from, and I think you've been suckered by Once again... As JMS has said numerous times, and as I keep repeating, "Of course, you're assuming the shadows are evil sui generis. May not Earlier, he was less cagey about it, stating directly that he had no And wrt Ligua: The storyline may follow the standard epic format, but I Finally, the cliche you mention is indeed a cliche. (Although it can be JMS is trying to do something fairly complex--playing on our expectations Clearly, Sheridan wants to go off "to kick ass." And I have no doubt that That said, I have no guarantees that JMS _isn't_ just doing the old But I don't think I'll be disappointed. : > Given JMS's penchant for doing the unusual, has anybody considered : > I consider it perfectly within the realm of possibilities that the : It's possible ..., However, ... : JMS has stated here that he thinks (paraphrasing now, hopefully fairly : David B. Mears I agree, David. You write what you know, and just as Jeffrey Joe has written recently that you can fight city hall, and Some of our heroes will never see the triumph, and there will be Scott Norton snorton@netcom.com In AoS we're introduced to the Lumati race, and what strikes us about So we're shocked to find out that the Lumati respect us and believe This style of storytelling is the most effective way to get a moral ***** Our characters in B5 are flawed; sometimes they fall short of their But even Sinclair said it: everybody lies. Everybody means I make some distinction between this and my own personal view; the The problem with putting self-sacrifice at the tippy top of your jms 1) Takashima, who was originally supposed to fill her post, IS a traitor. She 2) In Sheridan's dream, Ivanova was represented darkly - accompanied by a bird, 3) A considerable portion of the first season was spent on Ivanova's rogue 4) Ivanova is the only character that doesn't seem to have a definite purpose For these reasons, I suspect that Ivanova will be forced to betray her peers What do you think? After all, we aim to please, and we'd hate to let you down by not working Kip Ingram The greatest errors, I think, come in looking too closely for In any work of fiction, there are two primary elements: theme and Nothing could have been further from the truth, and it wasn't until That, however, is really the exception rather than the rule. I very jms We've seen so much on B5 this past year and a half. We've It is, according to ARC time, "the year the Great War I believe that the Vorlons and Shadows are the same
THE "GREAT WAR": JMS mentioned (I think) that the Great War hasn't
SHADOWS ARE WEAKER THAN IS APPARENT: I think that the Shadows are hiding _from_ the "ancient Also, G'Kar describes surface activity on the rim world Shadows have high technology (obviously) but low numbers
THE REASON WHY SHADOWS ACT NASTY: The Shadows are afraid of some Enemy whom we haven't
THERE ARE MORE NEW SECRETS TO BE REVEALED: Not all of the players in the Arc have been introduced
THE TECHNOMAGE EXODUS: A shipload of Technomages recently left the station for
VORLONS AND SHADOWS -- RELATIONSHIP: Yes, they're the same species, though different castes ***** I just ran across a quote I'd forgotten about, from Parliament of Dreams. In Babylon Squared, Zathras calls future Sinclair "The One" and says that he In a second season episode (was it CoS? Revelations? ...? ), Delenn is told to Finally, Shadow ships were described by Sheridan's friend, Jack, as a darkness So who IS the one who will follow? Some of the evidence points to Sinclair, Random thoughts. Sorry if they don't make sense. ***** Exactly. What you have here in your message are two pieces of the puzzle. jms ***** My personal philosophy is somewhere along the lines of, "won't ask, I mean, we're not shy about announcing that we prefer mint chocolate But if Talia Winters realtionship with any other 'B5' character If the concern is the affiliate or the sponsors, wait until late in ***** jms ***** jms ***** jms ***** When "The Coming of Shadows" was about to be aired, you posted a warning It sounds like we have more than one episode in the next batch that merit Any hints and warnings with respect to which upcoming episodes to watch cold ***** Unfortunately, that's the bulk of the remaining episodes, as opposed Remember, the deeper we go into the story, the more we're going to "Confessions" isn't per se a wham episode, for instance, but it does So while it isn't a whammer, it's an *emotional* episode, and you jms ***** So, what relation is Eddie Louie to Ted Linhart? Adminstrative Assistant? Not a nasty question -- I'm wondering if we've been given an official ***** OK. G'Kar knows that the Shadows are gathering but even his own people At this time the Narns have declared war on the Centauri. The Well, well, it looks like the Shadows don't have to work too hard at What with your Jungian imagery (damn you,that's *another* book I've ***** Interesting choice of Genesis record. I sat at the computer one night reading some stuff on B5 when the "Wake up now, this is the time you've waited for. Far below, where shadows fester as they grow, You know you're on the way out, Afer all, you're not what you thought you were at all. Now the host emerges, a Shadow starts to fall. Genesis, Album: Duke, Track: Cul-De-Sac Lets hope that this doesn't turn out to be too prophetic! Thought for today ***** From life alone, to life as One, -- lyrics Banks, music Banks/Rutherford, but I wouldn't suggest that JMS listens to Genesis. We do, after all, larry king ***** ***** "Listen to my voice, And wait for the Storm to come...." From the song "Prey" by Gary Numan ***** "Wake up now, this is the time you've waited for. Far below, where shadows fester as they grow, You know you're on the way out, Afer all, you're not what you thought you were at all. Now the host emerges, a Shadow starts to fall. Genesis, Album: Duke, Track: Cul-De-Sac ***** From life alone, to life as One, -- lyrics Banks, music Banks/Rutherford, ***** It'll take a whole lot more than Shadows to scare us; ***** "But remember this. One Eva Smith has gone - but there are millions and
From "An Inspector Calls: Act Three" by JB Priestley *****
Confessions and Lamentations The outbreak of a disease among the Markab population prompts a panic on the station; ***** Divided Loyalties Lyta Alexander, the station's first telepath (cf. "The Gathering") returns with a warning ***** The Long, Twilight Struggle The Narn-Centauri War reaches a turning point. Delenn is contacted by an old friend, > I can't believe that the other races can sit by and watch the They _are_ getting unoffical help from Sheridan and Delenn, as SPOILERS "THE LONG TWILIGHT STRUGGLE"(!) BELOW However that is not going to be enough since they are due to You _were_ warned twice! Don't blame me... ***** jms ***** jms ***** I've been doing a little thinking about "The Long Twilight Struggle". At twilight, shadows tend to get very ... very ... long. Is this something I should be worrying about? :-) Tim Lynch jms ****** Thanks for everything JMS, my understanding of literature has just been ***** Actually, that picture is of Horatio P. Farquar, an explorer who was jms ***** I ran across this as I finished Robert Fulghum's latest book, --jm Vedran Smailovic does not agree. Vedran Smailovic is a real person. Most everyone in Sarajevo knows now what a cellist can do -- for Millions of people saw Vedran's story in THE NEW YORK TIMES. But somewhere in my soul I know otherwise. Meanwhile, a cellist plays in the streets of Sarajevo. ***** The Centauri seem to be the closest analogies to the original This suggests that the Narns are most akin to the Medes, a fairly The Minbari, then, seem most like the Persians, a people often Jumping ahead slightly--the first major Persian defeats were to Leaving aside the shred of historical perspective that remains, ***** Another parallel: the Greeks and Persians (well, Byzantines and Is this an Earth-Minbari parallel (which would answer the ***** The story is the easy part. Breaking it up into bite-sized pieces is sometimes jms ***** Thus, when Franklin gets the Alien Healing device, he says, "Someday it Consider the Minbari. Delenn continuosly points out the importance Her culture truly "gets it" on one level, but on another level they The importance of rebirth has been stressed. Minbari souls are Meanwhile, a similar process is happening with the Shadows. The The Vorlons are the counterpart of the Shadows only insofar as The Third Age of Mankind will be a time when human culture will And one thing more. The issue of telepathy simply represents a new Ironheart had his eyes, both of them, forced open by Psi-corp's drugs This view can only be described by those who share it as So the growth of spirit, spirituality, is the key (IMO) to the And the coming conflict? What do the Shadows want? They are.. The Shadows are not one species, but they are one kind of soul. Well, that's it, that's my speculation prior to the revelations In any event, I'm as ready as I'll ever be. Bring on the new --
Bob: not bad, not bad.... jms ***** Another of them, which will get its turn shortly, is "Writers are not I don't wanna be distracted. Making TV and telling stories is hard After a season on CAPTAIN POWER, when I wrote pretty much anything I Point being...nothing *really* matters to me but telling a story, and Also, I'm 40. I'll be 41 in July. If B5 goes its full 5 year run, Finally, I'm leery of money past a certain point. Rod Serling wrote, 'Nuff said. jms ***** 1) Never be embarrassed or ashamed by anything you choose to write. ***** A poem came to mind, however. You are not the only one who 'The man above was a murderer, the man below was a thief, YOU, JMS, are the man above *and* the man below. We, the poor The poem ends with: 'And then it was all like a lurid dream, and I prayed for a swift release And there was my friend the murderer, and there was my friend the thief, For what you did in the B story line - or is it the A story? It'll Wicked Beyond Belief. Please stay that way - I love it. Doug ***** After reading many tragedies, today we have concluded our reading of We suffered a great tragedy last week in Oklahoma City, one of perfect I wrote you before giving my praise to your work on Babylon 5. Now, I Dahar Master Koras ***** I've been reading quite a few threads dealing with how the universe of B5 I remember reading the novel of _Jurassic Park_. "Everything...looks B5 is leading to a shift of massive proportions. The coming of the Great Is that what is happening with our society? We have killed or beaten Is there a paradigm shift coming for us? And I don't mean the "world Perhaps that's one of the ways JMS gets to us through B5. What we're Anyways, just my two cents. Flame if you like, comment if you like. Mike Thompson
***** And thanks. jms ***** In Hunter, Prey, Kosh told Sheridan he would teach him to understand I really don't think he's all that bright. Sinclair would not have Speaking of missed people, Julie (hmm?) Catelin Brown was wonderful. Ashan (the lying minbari) sure sounds like an 'Earth Firster'. The Check out the alcove behind Ms. Brown when she's talking with Generally look at the sets. The hallways seem lighter and brighter. Interesting that EA seems interested in getting Sheridan out of B5. Ivanova quoted something to Sheridan. Who really said that? I don't About the badge colors... Gold = command, red = medical, green = As far as my Kosh is avian theory, if he is, somebody must have a The scene with Furst and Jurasik in the bar was great. It's the best Interesting to note the color of the doll's coat as compared to Joe, the mining of the asteroid field, was it the thread here that So, Londo threatened to kill Vir yet again. He's said it on many Well, for those of you who read this and who haven't seen the show Jay OnlineHost: Welcome to EXTRA Online's *LIVE* Interview with J. *****
John: you have made a very perceptive observation. jms ***** The observation John made was along the lines of, "Gee, Dr. Franklin Methinks Franklin's intensity is getting him in trouble - he What's worse for him, I don't think the pressure is going to let up Re: Delenn - Is anyone else starting to think "martyr complex?" I'm getting annoyed Notice the number of flaws we're seeing in the characters lately. Londo This does not bode well for the future. Oh, yeah, and Delenn and Sheridan: Hey, Corun, I told you so. *grin* Ascetic, my gluteus maximus... (I *still* think she and Sinclair were made for each other and she ***** ***** They also focus on one of the main questions that B5 addreses itself Sometimes, I think, people get so caught up in what's happening and jms ***** Our characters in B5 are flawed; sometimes they fall short of their But even Sinclair said it: everybody lies. Everybody means I make some distinction between this and my own personal view; the The problem with putting self-sacrifice at the tippy top of your ***** That, however, is really the exception rather than the rule. I very ***** In "Soul Hunter," Franklin notes that the average human life span is ***** If we'd only had models to work with, then we would've found some way One of the options we discussed at the time was shooting model EFX Either way, it would've been done. We're quite happy that CGI came Patience, determination, direction and strength. Captain John Sheridan "Points of Departure" Babylon 5 ***** Actress PATRICIA TALLMAN Ms. Tallman is familiar to BABYLON 5 fans as telepath Lyta
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | The Patricia Tallman Conference has now
Transcript prepared by SysOp Adrienne Chafee Transcript Copyright (C) 1995 by CompuServe Information Service's Science Fiction and
- Baseball bat appears (Mr. Huntington) (cf bat newsgroup thread)
- Archimedes appears: "Give me a big enough lever and I can
move the world" (p.34) (cf Sheridan, AAitN)
- Poster: "I am we and we are you and we..." (p.36)
- "if you shoot like Helen Keller" (p.42) (cf Franklin, AAitN)
- Jungian keyword "synchronicity" (p.67)
- Bizarre dream sequence (p.82) (cf Londo, Sheridan, Ivanova)
- Many references to actual movies, TV, comics (eg p.110)
- Kosh (in the manner of speaking) appears (p.114)
- "What do you want?" appears (p.117) (cf Morden)
- "They'll only see us if they decide to see us" (p.154)
and many other instances of vision-warped minds.
- Nice self-reference with Lovecraft, Dunsany, Smith. (p.158)
- The famous number one humdinger is on p.165:
"'Babylon 5' was one of his favorite programs, the only
decent science-fiction series on TV."
- "Summoned, they come. Summoned, they serve. Summoned, they
must be fed." (p.181) (cf Delenn entering GC)
- "They require a name": the eaters in the dark. (p.181) (cf Long Dark)
- OtherSyde: "We are you and you are us"
Chris: "And we are the eggmen, big deal" (p.205 :-)
- "Now I understand. This is what I was born for.
I see that now." (p.206) (cf Garibaldi, B^2)
- "... my cocoon ... like a lizard shedding its skin" (p.212)
(cf Delenn)
- "What do you want?"
"To hurt them".
"What do you want?"
"I want it all."
"What do you want?"
"YES....." (p.240)
A little farther along it appears that these two
words may have been "to belong"?? (p.287)
- "... the OtherSyde was evolving. And if so, into what?" (p.292)
- More complex characters, with good and evil intermixed and
both essentially coming from within rather than without.
- The ending is like his previous novel at one level,
but also, um ... very different.
features technomyth; until strong enough, the OtherSyde's control of
physical things is limited to technology that seems magical in real
life, such as:
- demonic possession via telephone wire (p.40)
- lemon writing == demon writing. Chemical instead of electrical.
- telegraph key: even sillier (p.127)
- Dan Rather & ST:TOS on TV: but very creative/funny (& sick:-) (p.130)
- box with polaroid: more chemo (p.139)
- computer hacking (p.160)
essentially fantasy-type TZ stories in "Tales", are grim for those of
us who like hard science fiction. It's pretty clear that whatever the
general arc of Babylon 5 turns out to be, it will not depend on any
discovery, invention, or use of novel physical principles; likewise
for any resolution to the question of souls, Vorlons, Shadows, beings
in hyperspace, et cetera. Even the use of already known principles in
a consistent fashion is likely to be violated (and JMS has admitted as
much). The only hope for such plot devices will lie in isolated
single episodes that use a writer comfortable with sci/tech (none so
far), otherwise what we're going to get will all derive from mythic
elements that by definition hit us at a fundamental level which isn't
rational. This doesn't mean the B5 production crew won't try to be
realistic (and they are trying hard), it only means speculation or
extrapolation based on science or tech is likely to prove fruitless.
GREAT! I strongly recommend it for that alone. Unfortunately
everything following it was written by one disciple or another and
lacks either clarity or rigor; for whatever reason, nothing else about
the book was anywhere near as convincing as Jung's own words.
Nevertheless this is still a must-read. And yes, you will get some
insight into what "shadow" implies, and Morden's actions are perfectly
consonant with this interpretation.
BTW, somewhat related to and backing up Jung's notions of
archetypes is more recent research that has been done into phobias,
finding that we are indeed in some way hardwarily pre-programmed with
responses to certain kinds of surprisingly abstract stimuli. Many
visual images in B5 touch on these, notably the spaceships; I can post
a couple of references if people want them.
slow going. Felt rather rambling and disorganized sometimes; would
have prefered a more concise treatment. Anyone know if a better one
has been written since? The next book is more general, but much more
readable and relevant; start with that.
ISBN 0-385-24774-5
the TV series, since it claims to include more material and is in a
more readily accessible form (think of it as disk versus tape).
Highly recommended. In fact, there is so much resonance between
points mentioned here and stuff seen on Babylon 5 that I'd rank this
above all the other books for insight into the show's purpose and
direction. You'll also find little tidbits about Babylon, three ages
of mankind, significance of the Grail (and an intriguing
extraterrestrial origination story), and so on. That enough bait? Go
for it.
that Campbell did not believe intelligent life existed elsewhere in
the universe (although he knew something about cosmology; not good
with math, perhaps?). The second is that he claimed not to understand
why some people wanted immortality.
Power of Myth" that I thought was particularly appropriate here:
MOYERS: Who interprets the divinity inherent in nature for us today? Who
are our shamans? Who interprets unseen things for us?
the one who communicates myth for today. But he has to be an
artist who understands mythology and humanity and isn't simply
a sociologist with a program for you.
poets or artists, or who have not had a transcedent ecstasy?
How do we know of these things?
read-- and read and read. And read the right books by the right
people. Your mind is brought onto that level, and you have a nice,
mild, slow-burning rapture all the time. This realization of life can
be a constant realization in your living. When you find an author who
really grabs you, read everything he has done. Don't say, "Oh, I want
to know what So-and-so did"-- and don't bother at all with the
best-seller list. Just read what this one author has to give you.
And then you can go read what he had read. And the world opens up in
a way that is consistent with a certain point of view.
-----------------------------------
*****
-> post? 'Sinclair sees the hand, but Sinclair does not see the hand. And five
-> other people standing in the room would not see the hand that Sinclair sees,or
-> see the hand that they see.' jms
-> were directed at him, in the second person. You are the hand. You can be
-> either singular or plural. I believe that Sheridan (like Sinclair)is part of
-> the hand, the force, that they as a group or perhaps they and the Vorlons
-> together will use to defeat the Shadow. If you were to place the prime
-> movers, the Hand, together in one room, none of them would see the same hand.
-> They would all see the other members/fingers of the Hand, not themselves.
-> Therefore, they would all see a slightly different hand. Because of this,
-> none of them including Sheridan entirely understands right now. I suspect
-> that we as the (omniscient, uh, SEMI-omniscient)viewers will see the hand
-> before any of its members (except maybe Kosh).
-> Sherry
meaning five people (make that beings) from Babylon.... making Babylon
5 the place expendable! Maybe 'Boom!!!!' coming sooner than anyone
suspects...!!! Lots of characters been mentioning the fusion reactors
lately......
spirit who just 'possesses' the suit he walks around in!)
playing 'But what if....' when I'm trying to work!!!)
brother who supposedly died. Could he have any relevance to her
actions? It seems possible that he or her mother could be being
used by someone to force Ivanova to cooperate (but JMS in the AOL
interview said her mother wouldn't be a big part of this season,
just back story).
he). But we also know she turned against her former lover who was
part of the Earth First movement. Her reluctance to be scanned
makes me wonder whether she is a PsiCorps agent: surely she wouldn't
be worried about them if she were--she could have told Grey of her
mission. However, she could be an agent for military intelligence.
Sheridan's group might not be as good as they seem. And we know some
people in the govt. were suspicious of Sinclair.
hard to believe Tech 1 or the computer could surprise her.
--
Ann M. Williams
Systems Librarian/Cataloger
Pope Pius XII Library
Saint Joseph College, West Hartford, Connecticut, USA
I am reminded of a bit in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency,
by Douglas Adams. It is explained to the new Head of Radio Three
that 'the phrase "too much Mozart" was, given any reasonable
definition of those three words, an inherently self-contradictory
expression, and that any sentence which contained such a phrase
would thereby be rendered meaningless and could not, consequently,
be advanced as part of an argument in favor of any given
program-scheduling strategy.'
I noticed while looking over the WWW page The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5
that one of the guest stars for the episode "The Fall of Night" is the
actor who plays Neroon.
be about to flare up again. The central struggle of the Great War may be
between those factions of Humans and Minbari who wish to unite their
bodies and souls (Sinclair, Delenn, Sheridan) and those Humans and Minbari
who wish to go to war (Bureau 13, Neroon/Wind Swords).
suggested many times. Support for the theory includes statements like
"understanding is a three edged sword."
appear and disappear - and how some of them eat internal organs (The Long Dark)
without damaging the body.
represented on TV? Furthermore, Sheridan's dream indicates not another
PHYSICAL plane, but a metaphysical, almost spiritual, dimension.
in the dream were representations of souls. Were the Shadows banished to this
realm, in the last Great War? Did they find the Vorlons in here, whose
dimension-shifting abilities could act as a key to the door back to
3-dimensional space?
sent to Babylon 5? To observe the races who they'd sentenced to another Great
War? To teach them "how to fight legends?" Perhaps THAT's why Kosh chooses to
give Sheridan lessons - he sees promise, and a latent talent that can be
utilized against the Shadows. As Kosh said, he seeks "understanding" - as he
said: not his own, but Sheridan's ("you do not understand. Go.")! Sheridan's
thoughts became a song, one he recognized; now Kosh seeks to make Sheridan
understand a place where he has always been but never noticed.
*****
In AAitN, Delenn told Lennier she was going into darkness and fire (as
foretold in the Minbari rebirth ceremony in TPoD). While I expect there
is something even darker in her future, it seems to me that the
alienation she feels from her people is the beginning of the darkness
for her. Consider that for the last 20 cycles, other Minbari obeyed
virtually everything she said ("Understanding is not required, only
obedience."), and now they view her as an abomination.
questioning herself (the garden scene). GROPOS showed her that some
subset of humans resent her transformation and AAitN and TAtHL showed
her that Minbari think she's a freak. Delenn has always seemed very
self-confident and assured. She defied the rest of the GC to turn down
the leadership and to initiate her transformation when she did. But
it's a long fall from Satai to outcast. I don't think she expected the
vehemence of Minbari response to her change, and now it's getting to
her. When Ashan called her a freak, she looked like she was going to
cry. Delenn? Cry? First season, I would have laughed at the idea.
But the alienation and venom is wearing her down, starting her descent
into darkness and fire.
"Will you follow me into fire, into storm, into darkness, into death?"
*****
It is a testimony to the good working relationship that JMS and Peter A.
David must enjoy that "There All the Honor Lies," an episode written by PAD,
has me thinking about what JMS is up to in terms of the larger, five-year
story arc. To be sure, this was not a *Wham!* episode, but there was more
to think about here than might be apparent to the casual viewer.
among the last to air new episodes (life is like that when you're stranded
in a soybean patch), I am omitting some of the points that I would have
made because other posters have already addressed such matters. There
remain several points I think worthy of comment:
This is not in his character." As we already know from her asking
Sheridan to dinner in "A Race Through Dark Places," Delenn spends most
of her time on Babylon 5 discussing trade agreements with envoys from
other species. If she has made a point of studying another person
"at great length"--as she did in the case of one Jeffrey David
Sinclair, the ONLY other figure she seems to have studied intensively
--we can be fairly certain that that person figures PROMINENTLY in
Delenn's hidden agenda. The search for True Seekers continues.
for double n's when transliterating to the Roman alphabet?) called
Delenn a "freak," she was flustered, said nothing, and fled. I didn't
buy it. Minbari may not kill other Minbari, but the Delenn we learned
to admire in Season One would have slapped that little weasel into the
next star system. And don't hand me any guff about Delenn having
difficulty coming to terms with her new situation. Anyone who would
undertake the risks she took going into chrysalis would have to have
Nerves of Whatever-Minbari-Ships-Are-Made-Of. That the post-chrysalis
Delenn was regarded with suspicion and skepticism by the xenophobes
among her people had already been established. I am forced to conclude
that the insult and her uncharacteristically feeble reaction to it were
an attempt to heighten suspense before the commercial that immediately
followed that scene. Alas, there are some hackneyed conventions of
television that even *Babylon 5* has yet to overcome. (Runner-up
for Least Convincing Moment: The set design for the Moment of Perfect
Beauty failed to convince me that we were in the Worst Part of Down
Below. On the other hand, this was the same episode that had the
Best Corridor Shot to Date. As they say, "Even Homer nods.")
lawyer, Guinevere "Yet Another Arthurian Reference" Corey, Esq.,
seemed curiously incomplete. Possible explanations:
JMS gives recurring parts to actors whom he respects--cf. Walter
Koenig as Bester and Robert Foxworth (who was considered for the
Sheridan role) as General Hague. JMS's respect for and gratitude to
Caitlin Smith for taking the role of Na'Toth at the last minute
during Season One--and for performing the part brilliantly--are a
matter of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 record. We already have in Bester
a character who is both Annoying and a Certified Bad Guy. The
continuing enrichment of the series that has been one of the most
distinguishing traits of Season Two makes it logical that we should
have the introduction of an Annoying Character who is nevertheless
Well-Intentioned. (Well-intentioned? Yes. She watched out for
Sheridan's interests every step of the way, and when he challenged
her not to hold back anything from him, she gave him the Bad News
straight from the shoulder. On most television programs, that kind
of candor would be assigned to a male character. On JMS-television,
we got to see a strong woman, like it or not. I liked it.)
solely Minbari in origin, but had an Earther component as well. The
obvious objection is that Sheridan has not yet done enough to queer his
pitch with the Earth Alliance (Clark Administration), notwithstanding
Bester's expression of disappointment at the end of "A Race Through
Dark Places". The question asked by previous posters remains: WHO
dispatched Corey to the station?
bringing in someone to tell us that Sheridan's command of Babylon 5
was at stake. (When you're doing exposition for a 45-minute drama,
you have to take SOME shortcuts!) Added to Garibaldi's early suspicion
of a set-up, that is more than enough nudging for the alert viewer to
figure out things before the characters do. That would also be proof
(were it in doubt) that this was NOT an episode written by JMS. In a
true JMS episode (*Wham!*), the outcome is a surprise--but a surprise
about which we realize, in retrospect, the signs were there all along.
(This reads as a harsher criticism of Peter David than I intend. We
don't know how much of the story arc he knows, and *Babylon 5* isn't
his production. That is a handicap under which any guest writer
operates--with the possible exception of JMS's Spousal Over-Unit.)
option (1) because Caitlin Brown is so good, but prepared to settle
for option (3).
killed. After this episode, I am more certain than ever that our
little monk is doomed. Am I correct in my belief that Lennier
is the ONLY character who has yet to display a single character flaw?
Even when he lies, he does so for a noble purpose. <Sigh!> I grow
ever more convinced that JMS is going to kill him, precisely because
it will rip our guts out when he does so. As I have noted before,
JMS regards galactic war as Serious Business; I fear that killing
Lennier will be his way of showing us that he really means it.
word "fire" picks up nicely on previous references to the destiny
that awaits Babylon 5, from Lady Ladira in *Signs ad Portents* to
the B4 scenes in "Babylon Squared" to Kosh in "The Coming of
Shadows."
the charm of one hundred galvanized-tin garbage-can lids falling onto
a concrete floor from a great height.
intervening to secure Vir's position as his aide. I agree with
those posters who argue that self-interest plays a part in that
action--Vir knows enough about Londo's relationship with Morden
that Londo understandably wants to be able to keep an eye on him.
There is, however, another motive that I haven't seen mentioned.
G'Kar's formulation (I forget the exact words) that the universe
operates on the interaction of matter, energy, and enlightened
self-interest is incorrect, for it omits the fourth essential
ingredient: ROMANTICISM. In posts that date back to Season One,
when we were comparing Londo to Falstaff, JMS confirmed that Londo
was a romantic figure. I think we have to assume that when Vir
talked about how he had so often suffered contempt, from his family
and others--"Everywhere I go, I don't fit in"--he presented a self-
image that Londo recognized, consciously or not, as his (Londo's) own,
prior to Morden's giving a boost to his (Londo's) career. (And we've
known since "Soul Mates" just how blasted and unsupportive Londo's
family life has been. If you look back at the early JMS posts about
*Babylon 5*, you'll find that Londo found comfort in going to Babylon 5
not only because of the distance it put between him and his wives, but
also because of the distance it put between him and his *children*.)
The similarity between the demoralized Londo of "The Gathering" and the
demoralized Vir of "There All the Honor Lies" was remarkable. Indeed,
I would dearly love to know whether Stephen Furst studied a tape of
"The Gathering" in preparation for this episode. By intervening on
Vir's behalf, Londo was metaphorically intervening to spare a Londo-
substitute from the humiliation that Londo himself had suffered in
unhappier times.
suggested Maggie Smith would be ideal as Londo's mother--a suggestion
that prompted some gratifying private e-mail in support of the
suggestion. After this episode, I know whom to cast as Londo's
father: Brian Dennehey.
*****
>"Don't fear answers, only fear running out of questions?"
>within an episode?
I don't recall the aphorism from before).
both to reassure someone she respects and, perhaps, to tweak his habit
(overworked in the early episodes of Season Two) of quoting others'
little verbal nuggets.
one of those sleepless nights when she spent time down in Bay 13.
(Yes, I still think that whatever is going on with Susan, the time she
spends down in Bay 13 has something to do with it.)
We heard that Ivanova was born in the Russian Consortium, but spent most
of her time growing up abroad. Why? What kind of people are raised away
from home? Why Psicorps people of course. What kind of people are more
likely to have telepathic children? Why telepaths of course like Mrs.
Momma Ivanova. Who is the Psicorps control on B5? Why Ivanova of course.
it? Obviously they strong armed her in some way. Do we think our
beloved Ivanova is a turncoat? Am I out to lunch.
So, this morning, as I was sitting in the corridor of the hospital,
waiting to drink some barium and get Xray-ed, a curious connection
between enigmatic quotes occurred to me, and I wondered if there was more
connection beween them than just their incomprehensibility...
in AAitN could mean, and all we know for sure is that we don't know
anything for sure. It occurs to me that the last time we saw somethig
like this, was back in the season 1 classic "And the Sky Full of
Stars...", when Knight 2, being loaded into the shuttle for transport
back to earth for investigation, says to Sinclair "Something deep inside
tells me -- maybe we're both still inside."
than the normal one we experience every day. Perhaps this is the world
that the Vorlons live their primary existences in, and that the humans
(and possibly other races) are only beginning to realize has an impact
upon their own. Or are we? After all, aboriginal Australians have been
contacting the "Dream-Time" for centuries...
humanity "always been here"?
This was posted on alt.tv.babylon-5.
in a technological environment, not about the technology that they are
using.
that they can articulate, without being preachy.
machine.
wonderful, having depredations and poetry, for having people with both
heroism and flaws in their psyches.
the beginning.
Counselor Troi (or Crusher, or Picard, or Riker, etc etc etc).
it bleongs in and giving us a more mature outlook.
I am surprised there isn't more discussion here about the THEMES
developing in this great show, and the modern-day relevance of those
themes. JMS is always stressing the point, "This place is ABOUT
something." Well, what is it about?
One thing I see as particularly relevant is the current U.S. political
landscape with respect to foreign policy. In recent years there has been
resurgent interest in isolationism. From the unpleasant experience of
Vietnam, to the more recent feeling of impotence and powerlessness in
affecting conflicts in the Middle East, Bosnia, and the former USSR,
there has been growing disillusionment with the idea of the U.S. as an
activist nation, standing up to defend freedom and promote peace wherever
those things are threatened. Most recently, as with everything else, the
focus has shifted to the bottom line: Is it worth the money? Can we
really afford to spend the dough to invest in something that does not
produce a clear and obvious return? The same argument is being made about
the space program, the arts, the environment, PBS... anything that
doesn't produce instant gratification. There is a yearning to turn
inward, to return to a simpler life, and ignore all the pesky concerns
that complicate that ideal.
The problem with such a mentality is that it fails to see the big
picture, to view things from a LONG-TERM perspective. This is what I
believe B5 is making a strong statement about. We cannot ignore things
that go on in the rest of the universe and assume that just because they
don't appear to affect us now, they will not affect us in the future. The
Narn-Centauri war may just seem to be a regional conflict now, but we all
know it will grow into something much bigger. But the Earthers refuse to
consider it. They prefer to stick their heads in the sand and seek
instant gratification, and their elected officials are only too happy to
oblige, being slaves to opinion polls.
The above should not be interpreted as saying that the U.S. should be
more activist abroad. Mine is a more general message that applies equally
well to the issues of envronmental protection, public education, and
preservation of the arts. It is this: we must think long-term. We must
look outside our own narrow concerns and see the big picture. Because
eventually, whatever's "out there" now will be "in here" later. This is
not about altruism, egoism, "liberalism", or overzealous compassion. This
is about self-interest.
-- Michael Rubinstein
mrseeker@aol.com
*****
Everyone's been saying that "And Now For A Word" would make a good
introduction to B5 for a newbie. Maybe I'm just seeing this through
my old-timer's glasses, but I'm not too sure about that... because
in some respects this was an utterly depressing episode.
_extremely_ bleak picture of the state of the EA and of any hope
for B5 succeeding in its mission.
in popularity... the head of B5's own oversight committee questioning
the need for it... 41% of Earth's population expressing doubts about
its necessity... the reporter's aggressive stance against the station
for large portions of the program... it's one thing to hear mention
of growing Earth-first sentiment, but to see it played out on so
many levels throughout the show, and to see a news reporter (a kind of
creature guaranteed not to fight strong currents of public opinion) so
openly questioning the need for it, really makes it hit home.
Londo and G'Kar really made it clear that they believe the time for
peace is long past -- that the ideals behind B5 are in no way
important to them. That G'Kar would condone an attack on a Centauri
transport outside of B5, that Londo would openly threaten the EA,
really drove it home that they have no belief in the ideals of the
station on which they stay, and will actively work to thwart them.
(Not to be partisan, but when was the last time you saw something like
_that_ on DS9?)
intercultural understanding was Delenn... and look at how the
representative of the common Earthers treated her. It's one thing
when a lowlife GROPO wants to rough her up, but when a literate,
intelligent, and generally civilized-appearing member of the press
is so vicious to her, and regards Delenn's attempt to become more
like humans as an affront to humanity... I could almost hear
Delenn's world crashing down around her as it sinks in that *no
one*, human or Minbari, is willing to listen to her message. Not
only is she cut off from her own people, her attempt to reach out
to the humans is failing utterly. (I do think JMS went a bit
too far in having her utterly break down on camera -- I think it
would be more in character for her to summon up enough reserves of
dignity to cut off the interview just as she's beginning to lose
cotnrol.)
is not a nice place to be. The rays of hope and idealism offered
by Sheridan were all but lost in the darkness, the cynicism, and
the overwhelming hostility of the world surrounding them. As an
established fan, I liked the episode, but I have a feeling that a
first-time B5 viewer might not see enough of the reasons to hope
for these characters, to care enough to keep watching.
historical and present-day parallels in the episode. One moment
the script evoked the Viet Nam experience, the next it cited the
struggles of colonialism from the White Man's Burden up through the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the next it seemed to nod to the
current disregard for our space program. Joe sure knows history,
and B5 seems to fit in so well with the overall trends of human
history... and that is both a wonderful and a frightening thing.
Jon Blum
(who also notes with interest that Tech #1 has finally gotten a name
-- David Corwin. Considering that JMS only gives names to characters
who are going to be important, this makes me wonder...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever since Delenn underwent her transformation I -- and others on this
newsgroup, it seems -- have become less and less fond of her character. It
seems like her only emotions are confusion and insecurity. During the
first season, she seemed to be a much more formidable power; a woman of
mystery and a certain amount of meance (remember the gravity ring?). And
now..?
a paucity of good lines. However, I am starting to change my opinion. I
think, in fact, Mia Furlan is doing a pretty damn convincing job of acting
a very difficult part. She is now playing a formerly-powerful figure who
is alone, powerless, and lost. The interview scene in "A Word" really
brought this home.
(transforming into a half(?)-human), which she EXPECTED to bring the two
races closer together. She viewed it as an act of higher morality -- ushering
in a religious prophesy -- and one that could only be Good. However, her
own race now sees her as a freak -- half-enemy -- and her transformation as
an act of gall and ego. The interviewer has shown her that humans, whom she
sought to comfort with her change, view her as an abomination and a hideously
cruel tarnishing of the memories of the people killed in the E/M war. She's
lost her power and her presitge. Members of her own race (excepting, for
the moment, Lennier) view her as no longer one of them, and humans will
never accept her either. She is totally and completely alone -- and will be
forever. Who can she talk to? Lennier, Sinclair and Ivanova? Three people
in the enitre universe? I think Delenn is being fairly STRONG, considering
the depth of her isolation.
tragic figure. A good (or at least inoffensive) man, unthinkingly allied
with Evil, bringing about his own destruction. To complete the Tragic
Man symbol, a Reminder is always needed. Tragic figures are always haunted
by the knowledge of what they have done. In literature, this knowledge is
usually symbolized in a physical way by one of two methods. Either a
permanent physical change (Oedipus' plucked eyes, for example) or a companion
who follows the tragic figure, constantly reminding him of his deeds with his
mere presence. I think Vir will be that reminder for Londo.
and, as such, will remind him of what he has done. A common supposition
on r.a.s.t.b5 is that the Centauri homeworld will be decimated, with Londo
and one other (the "crowner") Centauri left alive. If you go back and
watch the Londo's crowning dream sequence, he has a look of pitiful despair
on his face. As if the act of being made emporer is merely a sad sham. Could
Vir be crowning Londo emporer of the two of them?
he has pledged to follow Delenn as long as he lives, has shown himself to
be -- above all -- a "man" of Minbari Honor. He is "good", but only in the
Minbari sense. He helped Sinclair overturn the murder plot NOT out of
affection for Sinclair or out of respect for Delenn's opinion of him, but to
protect the honor of his clan. How much will personal loyalty for Delenn count
if his entire race is against her? What will be the value of honor of service
to one who is condemned as evil and an abomination? Lennier, in a way, fits
another tragic archetype. He will do what OTEHRS consider right and --
ultimately -- will see that this has led him to evil.
Jeffrey Smith: your analysis of Delenn is dead-on...I don't quite
think she really understood what was required of her, and what would
happen; I think she believed it would go somewhat other than it has, which
has given her pause, she's rattled, alone and realizing the magnitude of
what is before her, and her choice to undergo the chrysalis. And that is
EXACTLY the core of a huge Delenn episode in the last part of this season.
jms
10: An unknown person says "Gee, I wonder who flies those ships with all the
spines on it?"
lifesavers.
they're mythic figures, somewhat bigger than life, so you write them a
bit differently. Also, where this discussion breaks down is that when
someone says they should talk like "ordinary people," you're talking
about ordinary 20th century people. This is the year 2259. And I've
had to sit down and come up with what I considered the current cultural
standards of that time. I've decided there's a return to a certain
level of literacy (unlike today), and formality (the commonplace use
of Mr. and Ms. in conversation).
One of the biggest problems today is the general lack of literacy on
the part of Americans due to a kneecapped educational system and, frankly,
TV. So why write *down* to the lowest common denominator and further
perpetuate the problem?
jms
The device of using a reporter's appearance to go to another POV is
not new to either B5 or MASH (though B5 is first to use it in SF). Where
I would draw the distinction is in the sense that "Word" is actually very
subtly subervsive. It's ostensibly about B5 (the broadcast itself) but
you learn a LOT about Earth in the process...how the government wants the
Mars situation interpreted ("an Earth-loyal populatoin held hostage by a
violent minority"), the government changing back home (suddenly we have
an Office of Public Information and a Ministry for Public Morale), how
they see the end of the Minbari war, and so on. It's designed to show
more than just who's being interviewed; you reflect home as well.
jms
*****
Okay, since the JS/teddy bear thing has come up again, let me deal
with this just a little.
Here's the story of the bear.
I hate cute. Everybody knows me, knows that. So after buying Peter
David's script #2, Peter sends me a gift. A bear. A teddy bear. With my
initials JS in front, and Bear-ba-lon 5 in the back. I call Peter back. I
say that I must now get him for this. He asks what I had in mind. I said
wait and see.
So I wrote the entire bear thing at the end of the show, and inserted
it into his script.
Never send me something cute.
Best part was during filming, we shot the bear against blue-screen
to be composited into the CGI. And there's our EFX supervisor, standing
there on film, against blue-screen, with this long rod up the teddy bear's
ass, spinning it round and round and round....
Whilst doing that, I also wrote and inserted the Kosh/Perfect Beauty
scenes, since I was already in it at that point anyway, and I figured it'd
be cool.
It also keeps the Sheridan Learning Stuff thread going, and works in
a nice balance to the rest of the episode. Here he's going nuts, being
harrassed, and his command is on the line...so he has to learn to bend
his knee, accept silence, give up his command symbolically by giving up
the stat bar, and finding one perfect moment of peace.
jms
*****
I think early on, through force of personality, and fascination
with a new medium, Edward R. Murrow became a hero for people...an icon.
In general, the media tried to project an image of honesty and lofty
ideals. Nowadays, we've got Connie Chung telling an old woman,
"Whisper it in my ear...I won't tell" and reporters having explosives
planted on trucks because they won't blow up like they're certain it
should. That alone is only half the story. The other half is that
they not only don't feel bad when caught, but are actually steadfast in
their belief that they did nothing wrong. We've got supposedly
straight news shows that are resembling the yellow journalistic
synicated shows. What will have to be done in the future to convey
larger-than-life iconism to the audience? How about the next
paragraph?
they do...lower her to her seat with a crane?...or does she have an
elevator in that thing? (Or maybe, like B5, they use CGI?)
money and effort consumed by this space-borne community."
who's ever gotten an "A" knows someone who completely dismisses any
effort you did to get it. "Oh, you're just smart." NASA achieved what
is arguably the greatest achievement of our species (launching a man
from the surface of his home planet in a contained enviroment, landing
him on the surface of another space body, and safely returning him
home) and was rewarded by practically being disassembled. The public
went from oohing and ahhing to "Oh, that's old hat" in a handful of
years. ("Old hat"?? Arrggh!) Of course, she doesn't indicate whether
the polls were taken after the Narn-Centauri War officially broke out.
A feeling that B5 is not as successful as hoped would be understandable
after that point.
But notice (in light of the fact that her comments here are after
the B5 visit) that she refers to B5 as a "community". I think she's
more sympathetic to Babylon 5 after her visit.
Nonetheless, she has to hold her audience for the whole hour so she
follows it by mentioning the "...conspiracy involving several of these
individuals" while pictures of Sheridan, Londo and G'Kar flash by in
the background implying they're all conspiring together to do
something. The closest we get is the actions by the Centauri and Narn
governments. Unless you call Sheridan's remote control ship a
conspiracy.
Interplanety Expeditions. Already caught and identified by other
posters.
"Midnight on the Firing Line", that the Centauri race were the first
space-faring species we encountered. We received from them a lot of
technology that sped up our industrial/information growth. He knows
that the Centauri are probably viewed fondly by a great deal of humans
and he uses this for all the political worth he can get.
your government sanctioned this attack?!" (after G'Kar was evasive).
G'Kar responds with the patience of someone who knows the other just
doesn't understand. Cynthia Talkman realizes that strong arm tactics
won't be helpful against G'Kar and goes softer from here on.
"We are already in far greater jeopardy than you can possibly
imagine." G'Kar must be one overworked pouch-puppy. He must attend to
his duties regarding the Narn-Centauri war but knows it may pale in
significance to the threat of the dark forces. Which does he give
precedence to? The war is an immediate threat and more pressing. But
is dealing with that like shooting your leg off to save your foot?
gotta say I love this scene!
that's the military job for me. "What would you like to do?" "Gee, I'd
like to captain a starship." "Ok, sign here. You'll command the
Agamennon. Show up next Tuesday." I think she meant something like
"Your were previously a starship captain, correct?"
"Former" Senator Hidoshi?? Is this the first mention of this?
*If* we assume the elections are set up like ours, then this could have
implications. "Midnight on the Firing Line" is presumably set in early
2257 with elections taking place. If Hidoshi came into office then or
was reelected or was continuing a longer 6-year term, then he didn't
finish out his term. What caused him to leave office prematurely? Bad
health? Or something more? I can think of any number of things but I
don't wish to get near story ideas.
friend was just a kid). He then goes on to describe kid-like
behavior...jumping out of someplace to scare someone. But on second
listen I realized Franklin said he was *seventeen*. Huh? Seventeen's
hardly a kid. You know what they say, "A fool and his oxygen soon go
separate ways." I keep listening to it hoping to hear, "seven...
ten...", but I don't.
ringing endorsement." Quantrell damns the station with faint praise.
disconnect somewhere. He knew the Earth was on the verge of complete
defeat. He was out there and saw it. Now that he has been spoken to
by Lennier ("Points of Departure"), he can't even make mention of that
since it would keep suspicions alive.
One wonders how people reconciled the reports coming in about the
Minbari approaching the Earth and rising death counts with the
"surrender". Was the news heavily censored? Was a cover story of some
new weapon or a big bluff circulated?
But then, I see some politicians saying one thing and in a matter
of a couple of weeks denying they ever said it, even though it's on
tape. Further, I see newspeople rarely challenging this and masses of
people not seeing anything amiss. I see times when I mention
"Tianenmen Square" (sp?) and drawing blank looks from nearly everyone.
mouths the correct pronounciation to her. Talkman either doesn't hear
her (the mike picks up nothing and Talkman gets a quizzical look on her
face) or Talkman does hear her (look on her face now interpreted as
"Correct moi? I don't think so"). She then proceeds to mispronounce
it again.
I go with the latter. I know, I know. How could Susan annoy
anyone enough to cause them to do that to her. Hard to believe. I
think Talkman clashed with Ivanova as soon as they met. As a result, I
think this lead to using the Corwin interview to dig up some muck on
Susan. Since that failed to produce any helpful results, she took to
insulting Susan on camera.
Nice camera image on Ivanova's board.
Motivation. Hopes that everything they've gone through will mean
something. Tie back to "Babylon Squared"?
#1 is supported by the show.
***SECOND aggressive pursuit by reporter***. This time her
aggressiveness is getting a reaction so she continues with it. Delenn
is the Minbari Ambassador. Dealing with the press may be something new
to her, but if she expects to accomplish the prime mission of being an
ambassador she needs to get herself together.
The reporter isn't asking anything that millions of humans wouldn't
ask her if they had the chance. I would actually consider that one of
the functions of the press. Imagine if Delenn's reply to "What would
you say to them?" had been something profound, said calmly and with
conviction. The reporter gave Delenn an incredible opportunity.
Whether this was the intent of the report I can't say. But I can say
Delenn flubbed it. (On the other hand, some people viewing the news
special will no doubt be swayed by sympathy for Delenn.)
look her in the eyes. Her attitude when meeting Lennier indicates she
probably considered this overly formal, perhaps even silly. But this
was what she knew. Nobody would call her or any other Minbari a liar.
Now, even a bottom-of-a-caste Minbari would dare not only to meet her
eyes, but to look on her with disgust. The other races would have
little fear of labeling a Minbari as a liar (except for that death
thingy, but most are probably unaware of that). And this reporter!
The things she says!
I think all this and all the things said in the many other posts
are working on Delenn. The physical changes in her body and the
accompanying hormonal and brain neuro-chemistry changes are letting her
be overwhelmed.
Since I want to say something new, let me mention a parallel. She
knows the change she's put herself through is for a greater purpose.
She knows her forthcoming trip "into fire" is for a greater purpose.
She's making sacrifices for the benefit of others and she may soon make
the ultimate sacrifice. People are not recognizing her sacrifices and
not even her own people are giving credence to what she says. I would
say she's almost reached the Garden of Gethsemane.
The biggest difference I would see between the two is that Jesus
knew he was going to die. Delenn doesn't know one way or the other.
The fact that there's so much she doesn't know is also weighing on her.
Peter said he would never deny Jesus...then did it...thrice...
before the next morning. Foreshadowing for Lennier?
I don't think so and I think that when the time comes, Delenn will
not ask that the cup be taken from her. But this is yet to be seen.
[Note for the Notice When a Number Is Repeated club. Quarter of a
million humans died in the war; quarter of a million beings are on
Babylon 5 at any given time.]
probably not completely correct due to his perspective. If the
Centauri simply went in and took over races then they would have done
the same to Earth. They tried some trickery (lost colony indeed!) but
they didn't come in and take over.
Mind you a simple rebuttal of this would be that we were much
further advanced when the Centauri encounterd us than when they
encountered the agrarian Narns.
While the report tries digging a little with Londo, he still
handles the interview with little difficulty. However, G'Kar wins this
round. His personal story pulls everyone's heart strings. He's
learned a lot in the last year (or else is just more careful in front
of the press). I wonder if the reporter had challenged him here to the
extent she challenged Delenn if he would have told her that if it was
another time and place, he would have her skinned alive for daring to
question him.
commercial hasn't been posted yet (IMO). We know from what Talia's
told us that Psi-Corp *becomes* your mother and father. The ad
suggests that the family is an integral part of Psi-Corp training. The
families responding to the commercial will "turn in" their family
member not realizing they're saying goodbye to them.
(The first interview may have taken place before it.) By this point, I
think the reporter is more sympathic to what B5 is doing and she just
lets Quantrell hang himself with his own disingenuousness. (Was he
going to ask Cynthia out on a date next?)
C and C..." I guess some blow-up we didn't see finally happened and
Sheridan cast them out of the room. I wonder if Sheridan had to
receive a message from his superiors or if he just worked out the
problem himself. Can't tell if "considerable" is an exaggeration or
not.
ambassadoring by sending a message to Centauri Prime: "Last thing the
Centauri want is a war on two fronts." He can always claim that he was
just tossing things around in his mind out loud and not speaking as an
official representative of the Earth Alliance.
got to keep the viewers), she speaks more positively of the station as
the show winds down.
during the crisis.
little less sincere. But he's still trying to hold on to the human
connection.
for all along. Delenn has gotten herself together and in gear and guns
are blazing. Talk about complimentary! All the other races know only
war. Humans are the great peacemakers. The choice is continual
galactic war or keep Babylon 5 going, run by humans, so that it can
reduce the amount of warfare in the way only humans can do.
whole show.
I suspect it's because he's a hero of the war. A reporter can go after
a Schwarzkoff of Powell, but they better know what they're talking
about.
Catch the longer 30-second ad for next week's episode if you can.
actually reach the end of this post. Give youself a pat on the back.
*****
What an absolutely wonderful analysis. I can't think of much that
I'd add to it. Certainly, as has been noted, Delenn's situation is giving
her considerable doubt and uncertainty and somewhat unmanned her, which
we'll deal with shortly. Anyway, otherwise, very well done analysis.
jms
Here's something that I came across that I thought really applies to
combat within the B5 universe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
1. If the enemy is in range, so are you.
2. Incoming fire has the right of way.
3. Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.
4. There is always a way.
5. The easy way is always mined.
6. Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo.
7. Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous.
8. The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions:
a. when you're ready for them.
b. when you're not ready for them.
9. Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.
10. If you can't remember, then the claymore is pointed at you.
11. The enemy diversion you have been ignoring will be the main attack.
12. A "sucking chest wound" is nature's way of telling you to slow down.
13. If your attack is going well, you have walked into an ambush.
14. Never draw fire, it irritates everyone around you.
15. Anything you do can get you shot, including nothing.
16. Make it tough enough for the enemy to get in and you won't be able to get out.
17. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than yourself.
18. If you're short of everything but the enemy, you're in a combat zone.
19. When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy.
20. Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.
*****
The fact that Ivanova was educated overseas a lot is not a case of
backfilling; you'll learn why this is, or at least infer it, in a later
episode entitled "Divided Loyalties." Ditto the Sheridan asteroid mining
stunt; I figured I'd give half of the story out in one episode, and the
other half in another episode. The problem here is that sometimes when a
point is raised, and someone's not clear on it, because some of the
information's been withheld, when that information is finally given, they
say it's backfilling. It ain't. Like the many who said they couldn't see
how Knights 1 and 2 could get through security, and why security was so
easily assured with the guard's financial record (until Garibaldi saw it)
... until we found out that Garibaldi's second was a traitor.
Some of this stuff really *is* planned, you know, folks....
jms
--====Top Ten Signs That JMS is mad at you====-
10. A man wearing a toilet-seat on his head arrives at
your door at 6 AM and says "There is a hole in your mind!"
and leaves.
9.You wake up and find the Centauri Emporer's wig in
your bed.
8.You recieve a package with no return address. It contains
a tape of "There All The Honor Lies" with an omnious note
saying "You are the bear"
7.Everynight for the past two weeks someone has called at
3 AM and asks "What do you want?"
6.The shadows in your house move when you're not looking
at them.
5.During the latest episode, Sheridan turns to the camera and
says "I'm going to kill you ,(insert your name here)"
4.A guess dressed like a ranger follows you around everywhere
you go.
3.You get stabbed in the gut and branded. (A La "War Prayer")
2.Paramount sends you flowers and a sympathy card.
And, the #1 sing that JMS might be mad at you........
1. When you do the "beep-beep" thing with your pen,
Kosh appears out of nowhere, grabs you and says
"There are somethings that we just don't do!"
-Kensu
Well, I just finished looking over the Lurker's guide at the next few coming
episodes. It just confirmed in my mind what I decided this previous Sunday.
changed me in ways I never thought would happen since TNG shut-down.
bland, inconsequential television. Episodes like "The Inner Light" definitely
convinced me that one could produce shows that were about things without
getting preachy. One could write episodes for television that would make you
THINK and consider what you are watching. MASH certainly did do episodes like
that and a few other series, but mostly, as we all know, it is mostly escapist
entertainment, and not very good at that.
have any idea where it was going judging from the first three episodes I saw.
Also descriptions like "Casablanca in space" kind of discouraged me. Anybody
remember the Casablanca TV series? :-)
stars". One word: Wow! First off, it was the first TV sci-fi I had seen that
had used VR in a meaningful way, but more importantly -- the episode convinced
me B5 was *about* something. There were things to think about and concider
more deeply here. I started watching.
most evil tyrants in the galaxy. I saw G'Kar go from being an ambassador of
a people who traded arms for their commerce to becoming, possibly, one of the
most tragic figures in filmed science-fiction. Ivanova became a REAL character
instead of a stuffed and stodgy stereotype. Garibaldi from cliche problematic
cop to a possible Shadows fighter.
gradually I didn't really notice. With episodes like "Signs & Portents" and
"Coming of Shadows", I knew I was beginning to be sucked in, but I had failed
to notice I had passed the event horizon. I still loved TNG, but B5 was now on
par with it.
manage to draw me back week after week.
had entered the Babylon 5 universe irrevocably. With that single episode, B5
eclipsed TNG. A friend of mine thought "Signs & Portents" was better, but I
disagree with him for one simple reason:
of Z'ha Dum" gave me the answers, *which was worse than the questions!*
expectation. Because in a way, we can guess what the title means now that we
have some of the answers. We can see what is coming, but there doesn't seem
much the characters can do to avoid the hammer-blow that is coming.
the degree Babylon 5 has. And you know what? I don't mind a bit! JMS, feel
free to mess with my mind. :-)
Especially concidering that some of these characters we _know_ are the walking
dead: Garibaldi ("Babylon Squared"), G'Kar ("Coming of Shadows" I think, and
before), Sherridan ("In the Shadow of Z'Ha Dum"), and Vir (I'll let you guess
where the hints have been dropped).
science-fiction story-line that may or may not end hapilly ever after. In
FILMED science-fiction, I can't seem to recall anything that approaches this.
The only things that come to mind are stuff like "2001: A Space Odessey", the
"Star Wars" saga in a vague sort of way, and "Blade Runner".
drama currently on television. I am now more deeply invloved in a television
story line than I can recall. Not even "Twin Peaks" engaged me as much as B5.
that vaulted position of INTELLIGENT programming. The characters are now more
developed than I can recall ever being done on TNG. Story lines are deeper and
more intricate than I have ever seen on television. Only if I go to WRITTEN
science-fiction do I find story telling of this caliber.
than filled it. Thank you.
I am not here to bury TNG, but to say it has an equal.
Short answer: No.
Medium answer, from Rod Serling, when a device he created for a
fictional story (a bomb wired to a plane set to detonate when the plane
dropped below a given altitude) ended up being used in real life: "A
writer cannot be held accountable for the pathology of fools."
Long answer....
Fiction ain't the problem. To say that it is "immoral" for SF
writers to tell stories about government conspiracies is not only contrary
to the very nature of fiction and SF in particular, it also misses the
point by a thousand miles.
It isn't that folks in the backwoods have been watching TV shows or
reading novels about fictional government conspiracies...it's that some
folks have been making "documentaries" and writing tracts that are
supposed to be THE TRUTH about what's going on.
It isn't fiction that's the problem...it's G. Gordon Liddy telling
people that if they're going to shoot at ATF officers they ought to aim
at the head because they wear flak jackets...it's Jesse Helms who told
the press that if Clinton ever came to his state the Pres better bring a
bodyguard with him...it's Rush Limbaugh and his other ilk who for years
have been making the distinction between Liberals and Americans...it's
fanatical elements within the Religious Right who feel the need to create
vast government conspiracies that say the government is going to come and
stamp the Number of the Beast on their forehead any moment now....
A climate of fear and paranoia and disloyalty for the crime of
disagreement has been created and fostered by those who have most to
gain from it. And now they are trying to run from what they have done.
It ain't TV shows about stuff happening in the far future. I don't think
anyone out there watching B5 has any belief whatsoever that this stuff is
real, and present, and can be responded to. If there are one or two
lunatics who might possibly read something into it, they could do so to
ANY program, regardless of content. People have committed crimes and
murder and gone insane because of things in the Bible...should we therefore
ban the Bible? One recent movie-goer was killed because he got the last
bag of popcorn at a movie theater, and another patron was pissed off
about it. Should we ban popcorn? There's nothing you can do that someone
won't read something into. Should we destroy all storytelling out of the
fear that somewhere, someone MIGHT be provoked by it? You can't live in
fear.
Your concern obviously grows out of the Oklahoma situation, but this
has no bearing upon that whatsoever. The problem is poverty, and
ignorance, and political rhetoric, and manipulation in the real world,
not the fictional one.
A TV writer can turn an audience against a killer, a stalker, a
criminal.
It takes a politician to turn us against ourselves.
jms
*****
Centauri section of the station.
of the purple/green conflict and the bullishness of the market.
that while permitting localized fluctuations of wealth and economic
activity overall provides financial opportunities and a steady, evenly
paced increase in general economic well-being."
Aligned worlds.
Head Butt Mania(tm) events.
subsidiary of Psi Corps, you feel the Corps can be relied upon and
you should trust their investment recommendations.
lot of "Clark in '62" buttons.
properties:
tomorrow.
*Delenn* is having a bad hair day, quickly turning into a bad hair
life.
only one of the old races left to help with the fight. The shit is
about to hit the fan in a major way. She pulls the chrysalis trick as
a gesture to help unite the Humans and the Minbari together and it
backfires: she got her ass kicked off the Grey Council, her own people
call her a freak and the humans have hated her all along. Plus now
she's got to organize a war effort against an enemy most people don't
even believe exist, and she just got her political feet knocked out
from under her. She's practically exiled from her homeworld.
nightmares at night, and you've got stress city. You think she's got
time to hit the beauty parlor?
Sheridan. For instance, I think she knows that the Shadows are helping
the Centauri, but she can't say a word about it to anybody for fear of
blowing the cover. This is a "Coventry" secret* that beats Sheridan's
dilemma hands down.
the crypto newsgroups. However I can't blame JMS for using it anyway;
that was a very powerful scene.]
parted for a sec and I could see clearly. Control is .... I'll tell
you that in a mo. We know the following so far.
Control is a male,
Control has help on B5,
Control's assistant is on B5 and speaks for Control.
2. Sheridan, he is the one who comes up with the name Bureau 13.
Sheridan knows about the Bureau.
railroad.
Control. Plus he is a Hero in the making wait and see.
and the Bureau is very tied up in the Earth/Mars
mess. Why would non-humans care about Mars?
listen to Control's assistant when he speaks, thats a
person not a computer talking.
assistant as he would be in place to watch C&C and montor
message traffic.
watch us go crazy. So control has to
be someone we have seen and know.
12. Mr. Morden, a good choice on the surface, but that would give to many
ties back to the Shadows.
is right there getting first hand info. As Sheridan tries
to get Horne to give up, Horne wants to know who did this
to him and Sheridan says "we'll find out together". This
would make Control (Zack) believe the Bureau was not at risk.
Also after Horne is shot Zack runs over to the body and
uses a scanner of some kind on him. Why would Zack be in
in such a hurry to scan the body unless he knew about the
overload buildup and wanted out of that room fast, or to
start the overload. At the end of the show when 13 is
talking to whoever is on the other side of the computer
screen, 13 asks is the Bureau at risk. There is a long pause
as this person checks with someone else and then reports
Control does not belive so. 13 then states belief is not
enough and tells that person to have control make sure.
Zack is in the perfect place to be a spy, right under
everyones nose and in a job where he would have access to
all the goings on.
Rule #1 for a spy is to hide in plain sight. The only draw
back to Zack being Control is this would be the second
bad guy under Garibaldi, but JMS could use this to send
Garibaldi back into the bottle for awhile.
All thats left now is to wait for JMS to reveal Control.
*****
Would anybody else say that a good rule of thumb for watching B5 might
be, "If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention"?
This episode had more screentime for the CGI than we've seen in a long
while, and a shitload of virtual sets. The virtual starfury cockpit, the
shuttle that takes the reporter over and witnessing the initial
Narn/Centauri conflict, and all of the combat scenes. Also, I'm sure
that everything but the desk and immediate background in the newsroom was
a virtual set. Reminded me of the virtual set with the Grey Council.
ship that brings the reporter over, to the cool wireframe radar effect on
the starfury (I guess you kinda have to know the way CGI works to
appreciate how it must have been done).
proximity to B5. The closer you are to an object, the longer it takes to
render (as a rule). That's why in space CGI, it's easy for the computer
most of the time because backgrounds are just a bunch of points. But
bring a 20,000+ polygon object so that it fills the whole screen and you
will be waiting a long time per frame.
you want a few MINUTES instead of a few seconds, will eat up rendering
time like you would not believe. We are talking 30 frames per second
here. That's why for the most part, effect shots have been relatively
short, and (IMO) shorter than they would have been if they were motion
control. They want to keep the shots to the bare minimum in order to
tell the story to reduce rendering time. There are few dramatic pauses
in CGI shots. But much of the CGI was luxuriously long in duration.
When you consider the fact that this is a TV series and it has big
schedule limitations, to be able to deliver this much CGI in one episode
is quite an acheivement, and when the season is over I think we will be
quite surprised with the amount they are able to throw up there. Next
week looks like it will be just as amazing.
Before she entered the Chrysalis, she was an honored member of the Grey
Council; she was even offered leadership of the entire Minbari people.
She had friends, a clan, a caste, a secure place in her society.
out, her position as ambassador is a sham (if I understand Neroon
correctly), even rank-and-file Minbari (except for Lennier) treat her like
crap. Human marines have harassed her, others have gawked. Her own body
betrays her with rat's nest hair and cramps. She needed Kosh to convince
her to undertake her, and even that reassurance must be wearing really
thin by now.
much-desired sense of belonging, and then smacks her right between the eyes
both with the "freakishness" of her appearance and with guilt over the
War, in one shot. Hell, I'd cry too. (I'm not sure Delenn would crumble
that easily, actually ... but possibly her former poise was an act, a
persona bolstered by position and habit ... possibly all Minbari are so
used to having a place, a role, a standing in their society that a
Minbari without clan or respect is no Minbari at all. Maybe it will all
become clear.)
[Re Knives]
Y'know, I watched far too much Star Trek as a child... Even after every
episode of B5, even after dropping Trek like a rock after the second
episode of Voyager, even after -Believers-, I was -still- expecting a
happy ending to be pulled out of the hat right up to the moment Londo
skewered his old friend...
Repeat after self: "B5 does -not- pull punches... B5 does -not- pull
punches..."
I would say that Londo has now exited the "comic and dark" segment
of his personal arc and is entering "tragic and dark".
Then again, there's always the character of God's Fool, who wanders
in and out of the most dangerous situations, is reckless with his life,
yet in the end is the only one to survive. Just a thought....
jms
The shadows are only incompetent if there is not a reason why they
have not chosen to pass beyond the rim. There is. And they *are*
currently playing it slow and patient; they *have* learned.
jms
*Shadows are evil, and need to have a bunch of godlike altruists to tell them
*what is "right".
* Ligia Abuabara (Ms 6, 2516) I see your point, but I like to be surprised
*when I get shown a new story. Finding myself watching a "classic" storyline,
*I hope for a few new twists, as you say. The problem that I find common is that
*the storyline can spread out through the whole plot, making it predictable &
*therefore dull. And that I want to avoid....
* Mike J. King (Ms 16, 2512) The cliche is "Ancient beings contact younger
*beings and tell them of ancient evil beings who are already corrupting some
*younger beings. Younger beings say "wow, ancient beings, we better do as they
*advise, 'cos they're wiser than us" and go off to kick ass, leaving their
*brains in neutral". The last 5 words are optional, depending on author quality.
JMS' legerdemain. First of all, JMS ain't doing Tolkien. He _alludes_ to
Tolkien, but I can feel the whole plane of the show sliding in a different
direction. Second of all, JMS is doing something more subtle than you seem to
think.
"The Shadows are the bad guys and the Vorlons are the good guys" is _not_ what
is going on here. (And neither is the reverse true.) Everyone seems to think
that the Shadows are the Evil Dark Force, but JMS has flat-out said that they
are not. As he wrote today:
be that simple."
jms
interest in doing a standard good-vs.-evil scenario. So, in response to your
complaints... The Vorlons are not necessarily "godlike altruists," the Shadows
are not necessarily "evil," and what the Vorlons say to do is not necessarily
what is "right." I agree that that would be dull. Fortunately, that's not
what's going on.
don't doubt that there will be surprises along the way. You needn't worry.
done very very well, even today--see "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge.)
As should be clear by now, that is not what B5 is doing. I don't know what it
_is_ doing, but I know it isn't just a good-vs.-evil thing.
to set us up for a fall. The Shadows look nasty and evil. The Vorlons look
like ancient, wise, altruistic beings. We seem to be gearing up for a
Great War
against Evil. And we expect that that's what we're going to get, because
that's
the cliche--that's how it is _always_ done. We say, "The Shadows look like
demons--okay, they're the Dark Force which we must Oppose. We've got the arc
figured out." But...JMS is depending on us to fall for this--for what he is
showing us with his right hand, so the hidden left hook will be all the more
compelling when it connects with our cheekbone.
he'll leave his brain in neutral when he does. But what is really going on
here? Why does Kosh want Sheridan to "fight legends"? What do the _Shadows_
want? Not "conquest and domination"--JMS has said that that's not it.
What are
the motivations of all the characters on this stage? Remember--we're nearing
the end of Act II of a five-act play. Thinking you can predict all that will
happen before the curtain falls will just leave you kicking yourself three
years
from now.
cliche.
I'm basing all this on _his_ guarantees, and on some subtle things which have
been dropped during the course of the show. And if it turns out, after five
years, that he _was_ doing good-vs.-evil, then I'll be a bit disappointed. Of
course, I'll still be pleased that there was an entertaining, engrossing
show on
TV for a while. But at that point I'll agree with you--B5 will have failed to
live up to its potential.
*****
: Michael Kandziora (mikegk@netcom.com) wrote:
: > that we may not win the war with the Shadows.
: > series may end with the defeat of the 'light'.
: accurately) mankind has been spending too much time lately looking down
: at our feet, when we should be looking up to the stars. He wants B5 to
: help us do that. That SEEMS to imply a fairly optimistic ending for
: the series. Of course, only time and JMS will tell (eventually).
Sinclair and John Sheridan are True Seekers, so is Joe Straczynski. He
acknowledges the human misery inherent in Downbelow, but at its heart is
a lurker who runs the underground railroad for fugitive telepaths, and
who will not be weighed down by the poverty of spirit that keeps the Grey
Council from following Delenn's insight into the potential that the human
race represents (grey can also signify bleak).
sometimes you can even win. He knows he can reach an audience here that
he may never be able to speak to again, and he means to make this
opportunity count. Part of his success can be measured by the extent to
which we, as one of the most visible parts of his audience, are moved by
him to stop looking at our own feet and start ACTING on the basis of the
vision that we, as people who can be inspired by wonders and imagination,
are more capable of grasping than most folks.
losses along the way, but I believe that the end will be eucatastrophic.
I don't think that any arguments to the contrary will persuade me otherwise.
*****
One of the things I've always liked about SF is the way it can present
commentary about the human condition in the guise of alien cultures or
situations.
them is their arrogance and lack of compassion. They won't even speak
to us directly since they consider us to be an "inferior" species, and
the Lumati delegate freely admits that he literally wouldn't lift a
finger to help someone in trouble; his "enlightened" view is that
natural selection must be given free reign, so his cold indifference
is "for their own good."
that we hold important values in common! After touring Downbelow and
seeing how we have "isolated the genetically inferior members" of
our own species, the Lumati decide that we are "worthy" of an alliance
with them. Politics does make strange bedfellows (as Ivanova aptly
demonstrated)!
message across -- not hitting you over the head with it, but
leading you down the path to slaughter. It reminds me of how the
prophet Nathan told a story to king David after he had committed
adultery with Bathsheba, about a rich man who stole his poor neighbor's
pet lamb in order to provide a meal to his guests. David was indignant
at the rich man's cruelty. But Nathan said, "You are the man!" --
because David, who had all the women he could ever want, had stolen
another man's only joy (and had him murdered afterwards to boot).
If the question is "Which is the greater good, self sacrifice or
honesty within the B5 universe," I'd have to for a third option. Both
of those are behaviors in service to a given cause. And it's the
selection of the greater *cause* that is most important; is it a
constructive cause, or a destructive one? Are you helping humanity step
forward, or step back? This isn't situational ethics, because the ethics
going in have to be the same: building the future, helping those who
cannot help themselves, spreading hope, fighting repression and pushing
for freedom and responsibility as linked concepts.
own goals. The Minbari don't generally lie; but the often tell only part
of the truth. If G'Kar has gotten away with something in the pilot, and
can't be brought to standard justice, some other way of meting out
justice will be found, even if that means fibbing to him about a
transmitter he's swallowed...i.e., lying.
everybody. Even if it's only a case of, "Listen, I tried to make it to
the party, but traffic was just a mess, I got up late, the dog ate my
homework."
work of the author does not always represent what the author believes on
a 1-1 basis. (If it did, there'd be NO religion in B5.) Personally, I
think I put loyalty and honesty at the top of my pantheon. I've worked
very hard to maintain a certain reputation, and it means a lot to me.
And anyone here who knows me knows that if you try and go after someone
I consider a friend, you will have to go through me first.
own personal Maslow's Pyramid of Self-Actualization is that it only
functions as a subset of something else. Self-sacrifice...to do *what*?
You are willing to die for a cause. Is that cause right? Are you too
easily and readily prepared to sacrifice? The other, less terminal form
of self-sacrifice is giving to other people, working to make life better,
but I don't tend to believe that's sacrifice as much as simple personal
responsibility. We should do it as freely and as easily as we breathe.
*****
My feeling is that Ivanova will betray Sheridan and her comrades, probably to
Psi-Corps. She may or may not be a telepath - only time will tell. However, I
think that she will have a Psi-Corps/Bureau 13 connection sometime in the
future, for the following reasons:
was in on Kosh's assassination (JMS has all but said this... or maybe he HAS
said this...). JMS intended that the Lieutenant Commmander/Commander be
traitorious, and I doubt that he's changed his mind. The players have
changed, but the game remains the same.....
symbolizing death in the future. The bird was a raven, and she LOOKED evil and
ominous. Her statements ("Shhh!" "Do you know who I am?") are mysterious and
threatening.
telepath mother. Clearly, an emotional link was meant to be established. Some
of the second season has dealt with Psi-Corps/Bureau 13 "bringing people back."
Ivanova wore a veil in mourning in Sheridan's dream. It all fits, doesn't it?
Psi-Corps (or the Shadows) has brought back Ivanova's mother, possibly as
Control. Indeed, Control is somebody that we've seen before, and will present
"Divided Loyalties" to Ivanova.
yet. She's spent a lot of time "parking cars" and settling petty diplomatic
disputes. Why is SHE on Babylon 5?
soon in the future - probably by Psi-Corps (or possibly the Shadows), employing
her mother as a bargaining tool.
*****
Well, jms, we're all aware that you put some very subtle stuff in these
shows. I've only begun to wonder in the last day or so whether there were
some pretty serious hidden meanings to the whole Drazi thing in tGoS. So
how are we doing? Has the net in general "focused" on the right things,
even if we haven't figured them all out completely? Or are there little
mines that you've buried in the plot that we've completely overlooked?
ourselves up over *every single little hint* that you drop :).
k.ingram@mail.utexas.edu
*****
I'd say that overall the nets, collectively, have done very good at
picking up on what's going on in the show. I think the larger themes have
been missed in places, but I think that in many ways that's because the
larger pieces haven't yet been inserted into the jigsaw puzzle so that
others can see what's going on.
parallels to other fiction. "Oh, I get it, it's just like X." That line
will lead you only into error.
plot. Plot are the incidents, theme is what it's *about* on a very
core level. Plot has been well analyzed; themes not necessarily. To tie
this paragraph and the one preceding, for instance, a number of folks
considered that the events in "Acts of Sacrifice" with the Lumati were a
shot at the Prime Directive/non-interference.
this was mentioned here that it even occured to me. Take a look at
Washington DC these days, and the larger culture. People being
warehoused, other people who *should* be in homes shoved out onto the
streets to fend for themselves, a general callousness that seems to be
creeping into the bones of a society that was born on the premise that
we should be at minimum kind to one another. I figured that one would
get a lot of discussion going on the degree to which society is, or should
be responsive to the least of its citizens. Darwinism vs. charity. And
some of that did emerge. But a fair measure of it got siphoned off into
comparisons with ST.
frequently find myself surprised at the depth of analysis that goes on
here, and the toughtfulness behind it. Quite a few have Gotten It. Some
are still backing up far enough to see the whole picture. And maybe at
times I'm not being sufficiently craftworthy in my work to make those
elements sufficiently clear. But the deeper we go, the more there is to
get, and the more folks *do* seem to be nailing it.
*****
The Long ARC of JMS
met a nasty new alien race, found out the reason for Babylon
4's disappearance, and witnessed a Minbari bad hair day. The
Narn now display a nobility that we never would've expected
from the first episode, and we recently saw Kosh exhibit
something like human anger. Three and a half years to go....I
don't suppose anything _new_ could happen in that time, could
it?
came upon us all", and something is going to end "in fire".
Consensus seems to be (and perhaps JMS has actually stated
this) that the Narn-Centauri war is a mere prelude to to this
Great War. There's some debate as to whether the Vorlons are
good and the Shadows bad, or vice-versa, but the common belief
is that they will be on opposing sides of the coming conflict.
species and, contrary to popular belief, are not diametrically
opposed to one another. The Shadows, though by no means
polite, are just a prelude to the _real_ enemy, and are just
as opposed to the real enemy as Sinclair's people will be.
The setup for the Great War will continue for a long time, and
when the War does come, the Enemy will originate from
somewhere in well-explored space, not from out in the
Za'Ha'boonies.
actually begun yet, that the Narn-Centauri conflict is just a
little scuffle compared to what's coming. I expect the
Shadows will turn out to be not too important in the end,
either. They've been introduced so early in the Arc that I
just can't imagine them remaining interesting for three and a
half years if all they do is shoot at things from their creepy
sea-urchin ships. Therefore, I believe that either the
Shadows are not the real enemy in the Great War (and neither
are the Vorlons), or that, possibly, the Shadows _are_ the
real enemy, but that the Great War just isn't all that
important to the development of the Arc (The Great War could
affect many species in a terrible way but only just lightly
brush human civilization, while a little local coup by
PsiCorp, for instance, would be a big thing for humans but not
for most of the rest of the galaxy.). World War One was known
as "The Great War" and "The War To End All Wars", but only
until an even bigger war came to pass.
enemy". The Shadows don't seem very powerful as a species,
else they wouldn't need to conceal themselves on their dark
little planet. Their ships and weapons are powerful, but they
keep them hidden for as long as possible, becoming visible
only long enough to take out a few Narn (Narn! Possibly the
weakest of the five main species!) vessels, then disappearing
as soon as the deed is done. The Shadows are _afraid_ of
something. It's possible that the Shadows are indeed
powerful, just not powerful enough to defeat the combined
forces of Vorlon/Centauri/Minbari/Human/Narn/etc., and so
their plan would be to take out the enemy one species at a
time, sowing seeds of discord while they're at it. However,
Shadow ships have shown themselves to be so efficient at
blitzkrieg that I can't imagine even just ten of them (making
heavy use of their quick disappearing act) having any trouble
wiping out everyone except perhaps the Vorlons (mind you, we
don't know that the _Vorlons_ are powerful, either; we just
don't _know_ about them).
(Did he actually name it as Za'Ha'Dume in that conversation?).
He must've either landed or flown in real close. Hard to do
that on a heavily-defended planet. The Shadows got to G'Kar's
team eventually, but the fact that G'Kar was able to get close
in the first place shows that there weren't many Shadow ships
guarding their very important base.
(inferred), else they would either have already conquered the
galaxy (if that was their goal) or they would not need to do
what they're doing now, which is...
seen yet (and probably won't see until at least the fourth
season, or else the show would get boring long before the
Arc's conclusion). Shadows are technologically advanced but
are not numerous, so they need allies to protect them, but
they cannot reveal their own weakness, else nobody would risk
defending them from the dangerous Enemy. The Shadows need a
mighty war machine on their side, so they do what they can to
gain influence with the Centauri government, eventually
leading to a more overt control over a newly revitalized
Centauri fighting force. They are afraid and desparate, and
not willing to go through polite diplomatic channels because
that just doesn't work. I think the Narns' current situation
is meant to parallel the Shadows' plight; we just haven't seen
the Shadows' big enemy. The Narns, once peaceful farmers,
have become vicious warriors and assassins, due to horrible
exploitation by an enemy army and the fai lure of diplomatic
channels to bring more that a token amount of relief. Also,
the Narns, at the beginning of the series, appeared to lack
any redeeming qualities, yet now they've shown that their
sense of honor and morals is not entirely at odds with our
own.
yet. The Zathras-people have a role to play, and so far, from
our statistical sample of 1, that role looks to be important,
but we have little more than hints about them. There is more
"new" information to come, info that we, the viewers, cannot
deduce from what has been given so far.
the Rim. When even two Technomages together is a rare and
ominous sight, a shipload of them is effectively a prophecy of
Armageddon. The head 'Mage said that Sheridan would not, with
luck, ever see them again (well, some sort of conditional
promise like that, at least). "The Rim" probably doesn't
refer to the rim of our galaxy, since EA explorations ships
are said to "push back" or "extend" the rim (or something like
that) with each voyage farther out. I get the feeling that
the Technomages are running _from_ something, something that
is already present in the little bubble of human-explored
space. Whether they plan to return and fight in the war or
not, though, the Technomages are still leaving human space. I
think that there's a great danger within human space, a danger
that's ready to burst forth; invasion from outside is not the
real danger.
(perhaps based on gender). Shadows are the "warrior caste",
Vorlons are the "religious caste", and the two castes behave
in very different ways, though they share the same goals.
Ambassador Kosh is a high-ranking member of their government,
with the authority and power to give orders to operatives from
outside of his own caste ("They are not for you"). Kosh is
something of a rogue even among her (I'll come back to that)
own people, though, and has begun a radical program of contact
with other species (Delenn transformation parallel) like no
other Vorlon/Shadow before her. Kosh is really the ship in
bay 13, and the encounter suit is just her "hand", as the
telepath in the pilot movie saw, imposing her own familiar
perceptions as a sort of filter over Kosh's memories. We've
seen that human (A Race Through Dark Places) and Centauri
(Signs and Portents) telepaths can form a strong telepathic
link through hand contact, so the (supposed) fact that the
encounter suit is just a small part of Kosh does not rule out
physical contact with the encounter suit as a way of touching
the mind of Kosh. Now, about Kosh being feminine, I think
_Hunter, Prey_ told us something. It is natural for humans in
comas to assume fetal position, but the old doctor was so
_obviously_ in fetal position (instead of half curled up, half
flopping around like an unconscious guy) when he emerged from
the ship that I just can't ignore the image. Also, it is
common for mothers to sing to their babies, and the ship did
just that to the helpless little creature that she was
carrying.
Spoilers for only some old shows (P.ofDr.,BabSq, DistStar, CoS) follow:
Remember that part of the Minbari litany when Delenn says,
Will you follow me into fire, into storm, into darkness, into death?
And the Nine said "yes".
Then do this in testimony to the One who will follow..."
(This is of course when everyone is offered a piece of fruit, and then Delenn
says, So it begins. We are told that we are witnessing a ceremony of
Renewal.)
(and implied others) will follow The One anywhere (paraphrasing... sorry).
appear before the Grey Council and is then dismissed from it. Afterwards,
when Lennier swears to stay with her on Babylon 5, she tells him she's not
sure of what her path will be, only that she is going into fire and darkness.
He swears to follow her, anyway. (sorry, but I'm paraphrasing again -
memory not Sherry's strong point)
against the stars, ...and Kosh tells the emperor that it will all end in
fire.
but other bits seems to indicate Delenn. Yet neither seems to fit all the
facts above. One reassuring note is the fact that that Minbari ceremony was
indeed a ritual of renewal. Maybe it was meant to be prophetic of the great
renewal and the Dawn of the Third Age?
Sherry
"So who IS the One? Some of the evidence points to Sinclair, but
other bits seem to indicate Delenn. Yet neither seems to fit all the
facts above."
You're confounded by the fact that somehow they don't quite seem to fit
into one another. That's because there's one last piece missing in this
part of the picture, which fits in between them. The intent is to put
this piece into clear view in year three, probably between episodes 8 and
11 approximately. At that point, the question of the One will be fully
answered.
*****
Lately I've been thinking about psionics (is this the right term?)
and science fiction and have the question "Why include such a lame-brained
idea as telepathy?" I know it's been used a lot in the new star trek (V,
DS9, TNG) and to a lesser extent in the old star trek (Spock... although I
actually like how they handled it here. It was rare, alien, and
dangerous), but I'm going to try to keep the rest of my comments to B5.
The biggest problem I have with telepathy is that I can't relate to
it. In the B5 universe psi-corps is a huge, powerful, _HUMAN_ organization
with powers I don't understand. All of a sudden there's millions of humans
running around with powers the human race has never had, powers I've never
had, and powers I don't think any human will ever have... (think about it,
in order for telepathy to work you'll have to be able to know the wiring
of a persons brain and all the nerve impulses of said brain) powers that
are completely the result of the imagination or fears of some human(s) in
our past. Psi-corps is such an essential part of the series, and yet I
wish it was never there. I'm sure there could have been some other secret
government organization that could have been used.
I like the idea in the old trek that telepathy is something alien,
rare, and dangerous. I like the preparation spock had to go through to use
his powers, and the pitfalls of using them. Best of all, telepathy was
alien. No humans had it, and if they did, it was just one episode and so,
again, was rare.
So why give humans psionic powers in this series unless it was a
completely essential part of the story (after all, the show could have
been made up until now without them)? I've heard some ideas about psionics
being part of human evolution (although there's no selection in our
species for psionics, and evolution is definately not a directed event -
so why is it appearing? Perhaps that soul thing again...).
In our last episode, straczynski@genie.geis.com was heard to say:
<on the question of Talia and/or Susan's sexual preferences>
: I thought we had adopted "don't ask, don't tell" as our national
: policy regarding this issue.
: jms
don't tell, ooh gross". But I think that consenting adults should not
be afraid to let others know their preferences in this important area
(or 'region' for the MSTies in the crowd).
chip ice cream to vanilla or Bugs Bunny over Daffy Duck. Why the heck
should we be ashamed to or prevented from revealing our sexual
preferences? Me, I'm a straight male. (ooh, big secret!)
hinges on her sexuality, I think that it may be important for us to
know what it is...at the appropriate time. We learned a lot about
G'Kar by his appetites and about Garibaldi from the repression of his
desires. We cheered when Sinclair proposed and cried when we saw
Sheridan's wife's last message of love for her husband. If Talia and
Susan (or Talia and Delenn or Talia and a llama or WHATEVER) have a
relationship that will advance either the plot or out understanding
about the characters, then by any means necessary, let's see it.
season three. Heck, _any_ publicity would be good at this point,
eight? Some shows have become HITS because of protests. (I think that
FOX still sends Terry Rakolta flowers at the start of every new
season of 'Married...With Children"!)
Actually, to correct this, the last track in the European version
has more *perussion* and fewer strings, whereas the American version has
more strings and less percussion (this in the longer, reorchestrated
suite of the Requiem for the Line). This was because Chris sent me the
tape with the last track for my approval. I listened to it, and thought
it was great...but for me, what really makes the RftL theme so beautiful
and moving and tragic and powerful are the strings in counterpoint to the
rest of the rhythm. Here they were missing. So I called, and said, "It
really needs the strings." By this point they were already pressing the
European edition, and it was too late to do anything about it. It was
subsequently revised for the American release. So now there are two
versions floating around out there; the percussive version is nice for
the driving aspect of it, it hits you hard in the gut; the string version
hits you in the heart and breaks it.
For track 12, Christopher did a much longer, full-length version of
The Battle of the Line sequence, adding a lot of depth and letting it play
out fully. So yes, parts of it echo what's on the disk earlier, but in a
better, extended-play version. For me, it's one of the best tracks on the
disk (though I somewhat prefer the American version over the European
version, due to the strings).
What we have in mind for Kosh is going to tax our capabilities to the
limit. It will be a mix of prosthetics, CGI, compositing, wardrobe, an
unusual kind of matte, different exposure techniques, on and on and on;
the visual effects meeting on just this one sequence was the biggest one
we've ever had, drawing in every department (also practical effects,
visual effects, rotoscope, and others). The sequence exists in lots of
different pieces which will take us months to assemble, so I haven't seen
the final product yet, but if we've done this right, it should be a real
doozy.
that we should watch that episode without seeing spoilers yet.
such a warning. Should we assume all of these impact hard, or should we be
especially wary that certain episodes ("And Now for a Word" leaps to mind)
should be viewed cold.
would be appreciated. (As they were with CoS.)
--
If there were three episodes I'd say should be watched as cold as
possible, I'd say..."In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum," "The Fall of Night,"
and "The Long, Twilight Struggle." (To some extent, I'd also inclulde
[include] "Confessions and Lamentations," and "Divided Loyalties.")
to CoS, which was a one-off situation. Hell, in some ways, when compared
with "Struggle," "The Coming of Shadows" is a light comedy in which nothing
much happens.
start cranking things. Each new batch starts off with a lighter, "let's
get acquainted" episode, but they turn fast. So I don't know what can
really be done about spoilers and stuff, except to hope for the best.
have some very sharp turns, and it's an extremely intense episode on a
par with "Believers." It makes no compromises and takes no prisoners, and
I imagine it'll stir up about as much debate as did "Believers," if not
more. When we did playback after doing the audio mix a few days ago,
there wasn't a dry eye in the house.
should come to it as unprepared as possible.
>Ted Linhart -- Asst Program Director -- WPWR-TV
>EDDIELOUIE@Aol.com
Net.handle? Net.spy? :-)
e-ddress for WPWR.
******
Joe,
I finished reading _Accusations_ the other day and I've been
wondering about Talia scanning Ivanova. She scans her to help her
retrieve an old memory. Since Ivanova has such an aversion to being
scanned (she was ready to quit Earthforce before over this wasn't she?)
I was wondering if this is something you would rather have left out of
the book or did you know it was going to be included in the book. Talia
also "sensed" Ivanova was in danger (this happened right after the scan)
even though they were not near each other (I think Talia said something
about it being a deep scan and the connection was still there or
something like that). Would you have rather left this out too or should
our paranoia kick in again about that implication?
The story up the "All Alone in the Night"
don't really believe him. Londo knows that some power is at work but
he's not telling. Sheridan, Susan & Garibaldi are now suspicious that
G'Kar may be on to something (and if the comics are canon then
Garibaldi and Keffer know for sure). Minbari phrophecy says that
darkness is coming.
Centauri, along with the war, are embroiled in internal conflict for
control of the Republic with the aim of taking back their "rightful"
place in the galaxy. The Grey Council has allowed the Warrior caste to
gain unprecedented power and Neroon, apparently, speaks for his caste
in obvious hatred of "the Earthers" and arrogant belief in "the
purity" of his race. Earth, already in conflict with various factions
looking to their own ends, now has the B5 command staff apparently
agreeing to work with General Hague and whatever force he represents
to take back their government.
divide and conquer since everyone's doing a great job without *their*
help....or are they?
got to read :-) ), your convoluted plots, hidden surprises,
sociopolitical (such a word?) observations and damn fine story telling
I'm lost for words........it's been said before but thanks anyway.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeannette,
following track came on. It made me wonder whether jms is a closet
Genesis fan :-) !
An army thousands strong, obsessed by right and wrong,
Sense their time is coming near.
So they turn towards the light from their region of the night,
Marching on and on,
They near the air it wont be long.
Its just a matter of time.
You thought you'd rule the world forever,
Long live the king, don't spare the loser.
You're just a natural fact, another cul de sac
On nature's hard unfeeling trail
And all those dreams of old will be stories left untold,
Cut of in your prime, extinct until the end of time.
Not one knows what hit them, none can see at all.
Even as the end approaches still they're not aware,
How can you fight a foe so deadly
When you don't even know it's there?
And now that the job is almost done
Maybe some escape, no, not even one!."
"It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of
work to do."
Jerome K. Jerome
British Humourist (1859 - 1927)
Or consider:
think not now your journey's done.
For though your ship be sturdy no mercy has the sea:
will you survive on this ocean of being?
For now the lizard's shredded its tail --
this is the end of Man's long union with Earth.
arrangement Banks/Hackett/Rutherford/Gabriel/Collins --
know that both Banks and Straczynski read Arthur C. Clarke, and that
seems sufficient to explain this.....
univ of washington
"i feel a tug on the rope, let me off at the rainbow
i should have been exploded in space: different orbits from my bones
not me! just quietly buried in stones"
Would anybody else say that a good rule of thumb for watching B5 might
be, "If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention"?
We are gathered here today to speak of the things that we have to do, and
the friends we have to call, from the middle ground, from the Darkness.
It's been many years many years since we have faced a danger such as this.
There is nowhere left to hide, no safety in old glories, No Sanctuary.
Iv'e seen the same nightmare in all our dreams, but now it's come to
Earth in search of us, and through treachery, we are found.
So we must prey to the Maker Of All Things,
Off the album "Sacrifice"
An army thousands strong, obsessed by right and wrong,
Sense their time is coming near.
So they turn towards the light from their region of the night,
Marching on and on,
They near the air it wont be long.
Its just a matter of time.
You thought you'd rule the world forever,
Long live the king, don't spare the loser.
You're just a natural fact, another cul de sac
On nature's hard unfeeling trail
And all those dreams of old will be stories left untold,
Cut of in your prime, extinct until the end of time.
Not one knows what hit them, none can see at all.
Even as the end approaches still they're not aware,
How can you fight a foe so deadly
When you don't even know it's there?
And now that the job is almost done
Maybe some escape, no, not even one!."
think not now your journey's done.
For though your ship be sturdy no mercy has the sea:
will you survive on this ocean of being?
For now the lizard's shredded its tail --
this is the end of Man's long union with Earth.
arrangement Banks/Hackett/Rutherford/Gabriel/Collins --
It'll take a whole lot more than idle threats to put us to flight;
It'll take a whole lot more than that to make us fall, right?
We got the power, this is the hour;
We're gonna see the light!
millions and millions of Eva Smiths and John Smiths left with us, with
their lives and their hopes and fears, their suffering and chance of
happiness, all intertwined with our lives, what we think and say and do.
We don't live alone. We are members of one body. We are responsible for
each other. *And I tell you that the time will soon come when, if men
will not learn that lesson, then they will be taught it in fire and blood
and anguish. Good night*"
Dr. Franklin races against time to find a cure.
that one of Babylon 5's officers may be an operative for a top-secret government
organization. Patricia Tallman as Lyta Alexander.
who offers assistance.
> Centari lick the crap out of the Narns and not do anything. At least
> Earth could smuggle guns or something to the Narn or else Earth will have
> to intervene.
opposed to Earth and Minbar.
surrender after an attack on their homeworld in episode 19:
"The Long Twilight Struggle" - which looks set to be another
biggie, featuring Sheridan and the Rangers, Draal and, yes,
the Shadows!
The shadows are only incompetent if there is not a reason why they
have not chosen to pass beyond the rim. There is. And they *are*
currently playing it slow and patient; they *have* learned.
Of course, you're assuming the shadows are evil sui generis. May not
be that simple.
Joe,
The first thing that comes to mind when I hear "twilight" in an epic
sort of context is Ragnarok, but in this case I'm wondering if it also
has an alternate context.
*****
Yes; work it out as you have, but take it further...we start with a
point of departure...then after some revelations, examine the geometry of
shadows, then begin to more forward, a race through dark plces. We come
toward the long dark, our past a distant star. We carry the motif of a
world getting dark. The coming of shadows that darkens into the long
twilight struggle, the last period between day and night...and we end the
season on...the fall of night.
I'm sorry, but this is the type of stuff that really ticks me off. :) I
had to go through how many literature classes in High School and College
trying to figure things out from Shakespeare, Chaucer, Conrad, etc. etc.
etc. All of these authors had the story right in front of you, until the
teacher puts the words in front of your face in a totally different
light, and you have to say to yourself, "Self, is this something the
author *meant* to do or is this something that the teacher is just
making up." NOW, we have the author telling us explicitly that he
*meant* to do this. I can't handle it any more, I
'm going to go neurotic! :) Help me, I've fallen and I can't get up!
flushed down the toilet. :)
"...just saw your picture on the web page. You are a cutie pie!!!"
lost while pursuing stories of the Yeti far in the Himalayan mountains,
and whose picture I used shamelessly for my own purposes. In truth, I am
two-headed (the other one only goes by the name Bob) and am frequently
trotted out for the annual Cat Frightening Festival in La Mesa.
JMS,
MAYBE (MAYBE NOT). He says to pass it on. It resonates so strongly
with things you've said that this seemed the obvious place to pass
it on TO. What use might be made of it in the context of this
particular forum, I will leave to your fertile imagination, as I
suspect it's obvious:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is the year 2050. In a large Eastern European city -- one that
has survived the vicissitudes of more than a thousand years of
human activity -- in an open square in the city center -- there is
a rather odd civic monument. A bronze statue.
Not a soldier or politician.
Not a general on a horse or a king on a throne.
Instead, the figure of a somewhat common man, sitting in a
chair.
Playing his cello.
Around the pedestal on which the statue sits, there are
bouquets of flowers.
If you count, you will always find twenty-two flowers in each
bunch.
The cellist is a national hero.
* * *
If you ask to hear the story of this statue, you will be told of a
time of civil war in this city. Demagogues lit bonfires of hatred
between citizens who belonged to different religions and ethnic
groups. Everyone became an enemy of someone else. None was exempt
or safe. Men, women, children, babies, grandparents -- old and
young -- strong and weak -- partisan and innocent -- all, all were
victims in the end. Many were maimed. Many were killed. Those who
did not die lived like animals in the ruins of the city.
Except one man. A musician. A cellist. He came to a certain
street corner every day. Dressed in formal black evening clothes,
sitting in a fire-charred chair, he played his cello. Knowing he
might be shot or beaten, still he played. Day after day he came.
To play the most beautiful music he knew.
Day after day after day. For twenty-two days.
His music was stronger than hate. His courage stronger than
fear.
And in time other musicians were captured by his spirit, and
they took their places in the street beside him. These acts of
courage were contagious. Anyone who could play an instrument or
sing found a place at a street intersection somewhere in the city
and made music.
In time the fighting stopped.
The music and the city and the people lived on.
* * *
A nice fable. A lovely story. Something adults might make up
to inspire children. A tale of the kind found in tourist
guidebooks explaining and embellishing the myths behind civic
statuary. A place to have your picture taken.
Is there any truth in such a parable other than the implied
acknowledgment of the sentimentality of mythmaking? The real world
does not work this way. We all know that. Cellists seldom become
civic heroes -- music doesn't affect wars.
In THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE, July 1992, his photograph
appeared.
Middle-aged, longish hair, great bushy mustache. He is
dressed in formal evening clothes. Sitting in a cafe chair in the
middle of a street. In front of a bakery where mortar fire struck
a breadline in late May, killing twenty-two people. He is playing
his cello. As a member of the Sarajevo Opera Orchestra, there is
little he can do about hate and war -- it has been going on in
Sarajevo for centuries. Even so, every day for twenty-two days he
has braved sniper and artillery fire to play Albinoni's profoundly
moving Adagio in G Minor.
I wonder if he chose this piece of music knowing it was
constructed from a manuscript fragment found in the ruins of
Dresden after the Second World War? The music survived the
firebombing. Perhaps that is why he played it there in the scarred
street in Sarajevo, where people died waiting in line for bread.
Something must triumph over horror.
Is this man crazy? Maybe. Is his gesture futile? Yes, in a
conventional sense, yes, of course. But what can a cellist do?
What madness to go out alone in the streets and address the world
with a wooden box and a hair-strung bow. What can a cellist do?
All he knows how to do. Speaking softly with his cello, one
note at a time, like the Pied Piper of Hamelin, calling out the
rats that infest the human spirit.
What he did is true.
Neither the breadline nor the mortar shell nor the music is
fiction.
For all the fairy tales, these acts DO take place in the
world in which we live.
Sometimes history knocks at the most ordinary door to see if
anyone is at home. Sometimes someone is.
the place where Vedran played has become an informal shrine, a
place of honor. Croats, Serbs, Muslims, Christians alike -- they
all know his name and face.
They place flowers where he played. Commemorating the hope
that must never die -- that someday, somehow, the best of humanity
shall overcome the worst, not through unexpected miracles but
through the expected acts of the many.
Sarajevo is not the only place where Vedran Smailovic is
known. An artist in Seattle, Washington, saw his picture and read
his story. Her name is Beliz Brother. Real person -- real name.
What could an artist do?
She organzied twenty-two cellists to play in twenty-two
public places in Seattle for twenty-two days, and on the final
day, all twenty-two played together in one place in front of a
store window displaying burned-out bread pans, twenty-two loaves
of bread, and twenty-two roses.
People came. Newspaper reporters and television cameras were
there. The story and the pictures were fed into the news networks
of the world. And passed back to Vedran Smailovic that he might
know his music had been heard and passed on. Others have begun to
play in many cities. In Washington, D.C., twenty-two cellists
played the day our new president was sworn into office. Who knows
who might hear? Who knows what might happen?
Millions have seen and heard the continuing story picked up by the
media.
Now you, too, know.
Tell it to someone. This is urgent news. Keep it alive in the
world.
As for the end of the story, who among us shall insist the
rest of the story cannot come true? Who shall say the monument in
the park in Sarajevo will never come to pass? The cynic who lives
in a dark hole in my most secret mind says one cellist cannot stop
a war, and the music can ultimately only a dirge played over the
unimaginable.
Listen.
Never, ever, regret or apologize for believing that when one
man or one woman decides to risk addressing the world with truth,
the world may stop what it is doing and hear.
There is to much evidence to the contrary. When we cease
believing this, the music will surely stop.
The myth of the impossible dream is more powerful than all
the facts of history. In my imagination, I lay flowers at the
statue memorializing Vedran Smailovic -- a monument that has not
yet been built, but MAY be.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jacque Marshall jacque@ncar.ucar.edu
Babylonians, builders of a multispecies empire, center of
commerce, etc. And in 2258, the Centauri seem to be quite like
the decaying Second Babylonian Empire after Nebuchadnezzar, right
about the time that Daniel literally read the writing on the
wall.
tenacious, formerly subject people, always looking desperately
for allies, and consumed by hatred for their oppressors. And,
like the original Medes, the Narns seem fated to start the
deluge, but also seem likely to be swept away by larger and newer
powers.
off to the side, yet highly developed intellectually,
spiritually, and technologically. (Incidentally, was the Narn
battle for independence supported by the Minbari?) The Minbari
also seem to be in a more expansionist mood than in the past
(perhaps influenced by their new leader, a Minbari Cyrus?).
a comparatively remote people who were then rather fractiously
spreading out beyond their homeland, and occurred rather
improbably on the remote people's home ground. The people were,
of course, the Greeks, and the B5 humans are almost too clearly
their obvious parallel (Marathon = the Black Star? Salamis =
the Line?).
and noting Alexander's (Sinclair's?) command to integrate the
Greeks and Persians after his victories, does this mean there
has to be *another* Earth-Minbari war before the common war
against the shadows begins?
Parthians) beat the living daylights out of each other fighting
over Syria and Mesopotamia, until the Arabs showed up and
overwhelmed the Persians and drove the Byzantines back into
Anatolia, an action applauded by the Hellenistic Syrians and
Egyptians because of their problems with the Byzantine rulers.
question about whose homeworld gets scragged, and would emphasize
the divisions of the Earthers), a Narn-Centauri parable (about
fighting over ultimately useless border posts), or just another
red herring?
tricky, but so far it seems to be hanging together. Generally, I do an ep where
I introduce a whole lot of threads; then over the next batch, I deal with one
or two of them at a time, developing them until the audience is comfortable
and/or some of them have been resolved; then bring in another ep with several threads. The
result is like incoming waves, with one coming in as the other is falling back...or a series of
overlapping curves.
I think it's all about spirituality. Not a flimsy New Age spirituality,
a hard-edged pragmatic spirituality. "Enlightened self-interest" taken
to its logical conclusions. Consider that JMS is not subtle. He cannot
afford to be. He has to hide his clues on the mantle in plain sight,
because he is simultaneously breaking two rules: he's acknowledging the
intelligence of an audience unused to being truly respected.
could be used to save someone where nothing else would work." And the
envelope sits on the mantle until the next season.
of "enlightened self-interest", the capacity for love, the capacity
for self-sacrifice in determining a being's character. She told
Sheridan, "We are the Universe made manifest, trying to understand
itself."
are stuck. They have ceased advancing. For others not so enlightened
as Delenn (who is by her role a unique individual in her culture),
the world is less clearly understood. Her ancient culture continues
with its warrior caste, it's best philosophies sunk to platitudes.
migrating to humans to be reborn. Why? Because through a "natural"
process, like that which causes lightning to cross from cloud to earth,
humanity expresses great "potential". The "greatest" Minbari souls
are crossing to Humanity as a means to escape their moribund, dying
civilization and continue their growth.
weakest souls, I am guessing, have been wandering to them from
races all over the Galaxy, strengthening their numbers. And the
Shadows prey on souls. I am convinced that the Soul Hunters were
originally a well-intentioned concept: jar up the greatest souls
to prevent their falling into the clutches of the Shadows. Only
the practice was perverted as such things often are.
they have culturually progressed to living many of the philosophies
which Humans and Minbari only strive for, only reach in their greatest
moments.
have shifted along in these directions. The hunger for power which
drives the consipiracies will become understood for the illness it is.
It will be an age when enlightened self interest, the ability to love,
and the ability for self sacrifice will comprise the motivations behind
the actions of humans.
kind of perception of the Universe (again, Delenn's quote about the
Universe requiring a "change of perspective). Humans presently
perceive this ability as the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind,
simply a tool for power. It's not being used to appreciate fully the
view it gives on the Universe.
and experiment. He... became... because he learned to perceive the
Universe from his new vantage point. Kosh and his people already
see the Universe this way -- thus talking to them is so difficult.
A blind man talking to a person with sight would not understand
many concepts or turns of phrase (i.e. "Yes, I see what you mean.")
although of course once eventually gets the drift. Likewise the
sighted person would have a hard time perceiving the blind person's
point of view. Even if they put on a blindfold to try it out, they
would always know they could take it off. Still it might be
instructional. Thus Kosh's interaction with Talia and the Viccer
was Kosh's way of trying to find out what the world looked like
with the squinty, limited "vision" of human telepathy. Thus
Sheridan, with his own limited, undetected (or unrevealed)
psionic ability could "see" Kosh in a small way.
"Song". Kosh referred to it as such. And in "The Quality
of Mercy" the killer also referred to it as a "symphony",
although he was not said to be a telepath. Maybe he was an
agent of the Shadows, and had had some exposure to it.
Calling this perception "song" is like telling a blind person
that blue is a "cool" color and red a "hot" one.
present tale. Those souls which grow move towards enlightenment:
of self-interest and compassion and clear vision of the Universe
(or AS the Universe). Those souls which do not grow remain weak,
fodder for the Shadows, some being captured by them, others migrating
to them of their own accord.
hungry. They perceive their lack, but being what they are they
do not know how to fill it. They attempt to consume the souls
which surpass them in order to fill the void. They do not
understand, nor can they. If they could, they wouldn't be
Shadows.
We have seen them in many forms: Spider-ships and Spider-fighters,
both obviously "living technology". Quadrupedal beings and
bipedal demon-like things ("The Long Dark"). And they can
move through the walls and be invisible at will because they
are not WHOLLY off the mark, they just don't get the big picture.
Finally, they are attended by all manner of client species, from
humans like Morden to Dilgar like Deathwalker, and others. Some
unwitting, some in full understanding. It is THEY who must cut
throught he walls on Babylon 4. Note that Garibaldi and the others
are firing constantly before the wall is cut through: the Shadows
were already on their side and were simply clearing the way for
their agents.
which are so eagerly awaited in the upcoming episodes. I've just
finished a "B-5 fest" of watching many of the taped episodes,
and I have to take my hat off to JMS: I have never, ever in my
life taken notes for a television show before. I am hoping
that some of my speculation is on the mark: I can sometimes
be good at these things. I pegged the date of the LA riots
five years before they happened, called the last four elections
correctly (Clinton again in 96, BTW, unless the economy sours),
and unfortunately last week I pegged the cause of the OK explosion
to 'tax protesters' as soon as I heard the first reports. So
I hope I am "getting it" here.
episodes!
Bob Alberti "I'm just a mirror of a mirror of myself" -Emily Saliers
alberti@mr.net Indigo Girls _Swamp Ophelia_ "Least Complicated"
On my office wall I have two large areas set aside for quotes, wh ich
are on 2x3 placards. I switch them in and out depending on my mood and the
situation. (Up now are "The point of no return. That is the point which
must be reached." And "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
All the quotes are about writing in one way or another.)
necessarily corrupted by money. Rather they are distracted, detoured into
other venues."
enough without adding an extra layer of nonsense. I make a good living.
I agree to license the stuff I'd personally like to have. But money has
never really *meant* that much to me, except the freedom to write what I
want, when I want, whenever I want. When I left Murder, She Wrote to do
B5, I took a pay cut even though the position was higher. My agent said
I was nuts. That's fine. Most of the jobs I've had, in the end I've
walked off, despite people waving money, when I thought that I could no
longer tell the stories I wanted to tell.
wanted, I got the sense that the second season was going to be more in the
control of the sponsor. They put a deal on the table for year two; I had
no other options waiting. Nonetheless, I passed. When I was on Jake and
the Fatman, the company screwed over my exec producers, to whom I owed a
great deal of allegiance. When they quit, I also walked, even though this
was my first major network staff credit, and I had nothing else pending,
and in fact ended up not working for several months.
being free to tell it the way I want. And if I got into heavily trying to
exploit every single dime out of B5, approving anything and everything,
softened where the show was going to help it get lots of spinoffs....it
wouldn't be the story I want to tell anymore. A good part of what this
show is, is subversive, and some elements are a bit on the controversial
side. If I had my eye on the dollar, I'd've never put "Believers" into
production. Or "Confessions and Lamentations" this season.
I'll be 44/45 at the end. And I will have said pretty much everything I
want to say in TV. At 45, I'll probably have 20 years in me to write all
the novels I want to write before the game is called on account of
darkness. I really don't want to waste that time running a franchise when
I should be telling stories. You find your story, you get on the stage,
tell it and get the hell off the stage.
in "The Velvet Alley," "Here's how they get you: they bring you to
Hollywood, and they pay you vast amounts of money for what you write.
Slowly, your standard of living begins to rise to where now you NEED that
income every day to maintain it. And then they threaten to take it away
from you...and then they own you."
Joe, have you ever read anything by Larry Niven? In particular, "Niven's
Laws for Writers?"
2) Writers who write for other writers should write letters.
3) Stories to end all stories on a given subject, don't.
4) It is a sin to waste the reader's time.
5) If you've nothing to say, you can say it any way you like. Stylistic
innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless
pronouns, internal inconsistencies: feel free. If what you have to
say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest
language possible. If the reader doesn't get it then, let it not
be your fault.
6) The whole world thinks that, because you can write, you must be good
at public speaking too. It ain't necesarily so. Everybody talks
first draft.
I just caught "And there all the Honor Lies" (no worries, no
spoilers) and wish to complement you on the brilliant juxaposition
of the two story lines. It was simply great. After the agony
of withdrawl symtoms I was feeling between the issuance of new
episodes, Honor came through like rain in the dessert.
can quote poetry, you know. These few lines are by one of my
favorite poets. 10 points to you if you can get his name.
And I lay there in the bunk between, ailing beyond belief;
A weary armful of skin and bone, wasted with pain and grief.'
viewers, are the man in the middle (solved that one, eh?).
You've killed us with your great scenes (fortunately your viewers
are of sturdy constitution and possess great recuperative powers;
you've stolen our nights and days, and often our sanity, with your
'terrible' show.
You can easily guess why we're ailing and 'wasted with pain and grief'.
From the ruthless ones who would not leave me to die alone in peace,
Till I wakened up and I found myself at the post of the Mounted Police.
With bracelets of steel around their wrists, and wicked beyond belief . . .'
probably be remembered longer - I denounce you, JMS, as:
Thanks again for the wonderful show.
Well JMS, after my class today I wonder if you're the incarnation of the
Greek god Dionysus. You must be after the realization I came to today.
For today I have fully realized just what the value of an education can be.
I have been taking a course on Greek culture. I took this course to
fulfill what are often termed as a reason for the university to soak
more cash out of a college student. But now, between this course,
Babylon 5, and recent events have made me realize just how valuable
this course is.
Euripedes "The Bacchae" and many things have come into focus. Dionysus is
the God of Greek theatre. Dionysus controls illusion and can move us
from perfect beauty to perfect evil, and even more get away with it
(sound like anyone familiar). Dionysus is capable of great illusion so
that what is considered as reality is more often a dream, or a nightmare;
and what is considered a dream or nightmare is more often reality.
evil. It is very hard to believe that such a tragedy could take place,
yet the evidence is displayed right on our TV and in your newspaper.
Fantasy hits home more often than we would like to believe, and what we
perceive as real is more often just an illusion. Yet in a world of such
perfect evil is perfect beauty, for such a tragedy caused a unification
of aid by the people of Oklahoma City. When darkness poses its greatest
threat, thats when the light rises to challenge the threat of darkness.
So often it takes tragedy to inspire people to their best. So it
is that when so few cause such evil, so many rise up to overcome it.
have even more praise for your work. Perhaps Babylon 5 should be made a
college course. Science teaches you facts. But facts alone are
meaningless without perspective, motivation and thought. Babylon 5 does
much to inspire us to do all three. Thank you JMS!
garyb@astro.ocis.temple.edu
Hello out there.
compares to the "real world," whatever that means. One of the things I
see happening in B5 is the coming of a paradigm shift--a complete and
utter change in the way the universe is seen to react.
different on the other side," a dying Ian Malcom tells the reader.
Shifts are like that--almost deathlike in their intensity, and completely
changing how people see, and ultimately behave in, the universe.
War. The fragmentation of the old order--established traditions and
roles are coming apart at the seams. Each faction fights with the other
in order to help determine the coming change, while from outside (or from
inside) a common threat motivates those who seek to make things better.
down many of the old ways of looking at the universe, and we are left
with more questions we cannot answer. We are still looking at our feet,
when we should be looking beyond that, beyond ourselves and our petty
concerns. We repeat old battles, we fight for causes long ago
forgotten. But there is nobility in this somehow. Some are working to
make things better. Some do look beyond themselves. All is not dark.
ends in 1999" bit. I mean something that will cause us to look at
ourselves and say, "Hey, what the hell were we doing? Why were we doing
this?" You could almost call it a reality check, except reality itself
will get checked. I'll leave that open for now, since I'm getting out of
my depth.
seeing is not so much another universe but ourselves.
Better to try and fail, than not to have tried at all.
"I am gray. I stand between the candle and the star. We are gray. We
stand between the darkness and the light."
--Minbari Gray Council invocation, "Babylon Squared"
Anything I write on line can be posted to other services.
WOW. This is a non-jms script, and it's still fantastic. Well, I
liked it anyway. This show keeps getting better and better. Not
quite coming of shadows, and no WHAMs, but very good nonetheless.
himself. Sheridan, bright boy that he is, has already forgotten this,
he says the lessons are so they understand each other. I don't think
everything has quite sunk in yet.
been caught in that trap. I remember thinking when Sheridan took the
bait that Sinclair solves problems with his mind, Sheridan uses
testosterone. I really miss Sinclair.
I really miss N'Toth too. It was great seeing her again, much more
civilized though, but just as sneaky.
xenophobia exibited by both species is amazing. It's a wonder either
of us can put up with other races long enough to get any trade done.
Sheridan in his office. What's in there? It looks like puzzles to
me. Not surprising that he's into them.
Most of the rooms seem redecorated. Why is that?
Could it be bureau 13, or some other faction? They put him in there.
He's not been as cooperative as they'd like, almost as bad as
Sinclair.
recall it from season 1, but my memory ain't the greatest. Was it
someone else? This throwaway line seems like it might be important.
security. Those last two seem backwards to me :-) One more thing,
what about technical people? There's a bunch of non-security types
doing techie things in the show. What color are they? (I can't see
the actual colors of the badges well enough to identify them) Since
jms mentioned it, I've been looking at Ivanova's badge, sure enough it
is split, but I can't identify the colors.
bird on the show. The way Kosh acts is so similar to my macaw it's
scary. Lance moves his head pretty much like Kosh does in time to
music. (Kosh 'head bobbed' to the gregorian chants) Also, the
'wings' on the back of his encounter suit seem more pronounced and
detached then before to me.
acting I've seen out of Furst. He's really never had the opertunity
to show much range, but in this episode he carried it off well.
Londo's. The doll's was actually brighter then Londo's has ever been,
but the shot made the color change real obvious to those in the
audience that hadn't clued into the change yet.
changed the story, or was that always in the plan? Did Sheridan
intentionally skip over the slimiest part of the story? Using an
emergency beacon to lure the ships to the mines was not at all
honorable. That was a dirty trick, even for war. It's no wonder the
minbari hate him so. It does neatly solve the issues we had with the
original story though.
occasions. And I think this is foreshadowing. I tell you true
folks, Vir is toast, probably at Londo's hand before the end of the
season. I really will hate to see it though. Londo again proved that
when push comes to shove, he really is a good person.
yet, it's great. There's quite a number of laughs in it, and we get
to see a shadow of the Ivanova we all love, and miss this season.
*****
: Michael Straczynski, Executive Producer and
: Creator of "Babylon 5," and actress Claudia
: Christian, who plays Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova
: on the show.
OnlineHost: J. Michael Straczynski is the Executive Producer
: and Creator of "Babylon 5," and has a long
: relationship with science-fiction and related
: genres.
OnlineHost: Claudia Christian stars as Lt. Commander Susan
: Ivanova in "Babylon 5." Her other credits include
: starring roles in Danielle Steele's
: "Kaleidoscope," "Columbo," "A Masterpiece of
: Murder," and her film credits include "The Chase,"
: "Hexed," "Clean & Sober," "The Hidden" and "Never
: On Tuesday."
CSEmcee5: Welcome to The Globe Mr Straczynski and Ms. Christian.
Jms at B5: Glad to be here.
ClaudiaB5: Thank you, it's good to be here.
CSEmcee5: Here is the first question for you:
Question: When was Babylon 5 created?
Jms at B5: I created the show in 1986/87, and wrote the initial
screenplay
for the...
Jms at B5: pilot movie in 1987, commissioned artwork, and began
taking the
project around to...
Jms at B5: studios and networks, with my associates Doug and John.
It took
us 5 years to...
Jms at B5: find someone who believed in the project the way we
do...and here
we are.
Jms at B5: GA
Question: This is a question for JMS, rumors are flying about what
happened
at the Big Bang. Could
Question: you clear up what happened?
Jms at B5: We had provided material for the organizers of the con on
the
strict notion that...
Jms at B5: they were to be used only to make a demo for later
merchandising.
We then found...
Jms at B5: that they were taking these items, mass producing and
selling them
without our...
Jms at B5: knowledge, permission, or license. At that juncture, in
addition
to some previous...
Jms at B5: problems we'd had, B5 had to withdraw official sanctioning
of the
con, although we are...
Jms at B5: allowing those cast members concerned about fans with
non-refundable airline tickets...
Jms at B5: and non-refunding con tickets, to go for their benefit.
GA
Question: Whom did you use from your past to help create your
character, Ms.
Christian?
ClaudiaB5: Absolutely nothing. Ivanova's mold was broken after
creation.
Question: For JMS: Any word on the renewal for season 3?
Jms at B5: And we're all thankful.
Jms at B5: We should know by the end of the month.
Question: There has been some speculation about Ivanova pursuing an
intimate
relationship with
Question: Talia. Will this come about?
Jms at B5: I think it would be fair to say that she does have an
intimate
relationship somewhere...
Jms at B5: down the road.
ClaudiaB5: Been there done it. Worn the T-shirt
ClaudiaB5: &n
Question: JMS, will you choose "Acts of Sacrifice" for Andreas'
nomination.
He was excellent in
Question: that episode.
Jms at B5: I think we chose "Coming of Shadows" for that, actually.
Question: Is it true that you have the future of B5 worked out?
Jms at B5: We've nominated many in our cast for emmies.
ClaudiaB5: Yes actually I do.
Jms at B5: To the last degree, virtually every episode for the full
five year
run that I want this...
Jms at B5: show to last for. It's a novel for TV, and you generally
have to
outline to know where...
Jms at B5: you're going.
Question: For Claudia, any upcoming movie projects during the break
between
seasons?
ClaudiaB5: Too many to talk about.
ClaudiaB5: &N
Question: Joe: how well is the B5 comic doing?
ClaudiaB5: I don't think they draw me well at all.
Jms at B5: As far as I know, it's selling very well, and has just
gone to
better stock paper.
Jms at B5: I'm happy with the stories, and there's some surprises
going, in
that we're...
Jms at B5: hooking in some of the series stuff, introducing a new
character
in the comic who will...
Jms at B5: likley show up in the series (I'll be doing another
4-issue arc,
btw).
ClaudiaB5: And that's just the commercials.
Jms at B5: Being on-line with Claudia is like being trapped in a tin
drum...
Question: Claudia: How close is your real-life personality to your
tough,
take-charge character?
ClaudiaB5: Rim shot rim shot.
Question: Will there be any big changes in the cast for the next
season?
Jms at B5: Claudia is having too much fun.
ClaudiaB5: Very close, in fact this morning I kicked my dog, ate
breakfast...
Jms at B5: Ah...a question I can't answer. Expect some surprises.
Question: My favorite characters in the series are Cmdr. Sinclair &
Morden...will there be more
Question: episodes featuring them?
ClaudiaB5: and went go-cart racing.
Jms at B5: You will definitely see more of Morden...and we have some
interesting plans for Sinclair.
Question: Claudia, How much input do you have in your character
development?
ClaudiaB5: Absolutely none, Joe rules!
Question: To Claudia, Hi, I was wondering if you were from
russia just
like your character you
Question: play.
ClaudiaB5: Born in Glendale, raised in Connecticut.
character.
Question: What's it like working with Harlan Ellison?
Jms at B5: Harlan describes his role as mad dog nipping at my heels;
I think
of him as my personal...
Jms at B5: Jiminy Cricket, steering me away from trouble. Overall,
he's a
free-floating agent of..
Jms at B5: chaos, who gets into anything he wants to. He's a joy to
work
with.
Question: JMS - If the B5 story is like an iceburg - i.e. we only
see 10% of
it, how much will we
Question: see at the end of this season and how much at the end of
the story?
Jms at B5: I can't even countenance that thought; the only way this
show has
gotten made has...
Jms at B5: been via an act of sheer will, I refuse to allow the
chance of it
ending...as for this...
Jms at B5: season (I misread your question) (stupid producer boy)
you'll have
all of the...
Jms at B5: questions asked at the start of the season,
answered...almost.
Jms at B5: Each year is nominally self-contained.
Question: What happened to the 4 previous B5s?
Jms at B5: 1 Sabotaged 2 Sabotaged 3 Blowed up 4 Vanished
mysteriously
Question: Are models used for the ships and station or are they all
computer
generated?
Jms at B5: All CGI. Including Claudia.
ClaudiaB5: THere are not models, ever.
Question: When will tape of the first season be available, and will
there be
more than one episode
Question: on a tape?
Jms at B5: But Claudia could BE a model.
ClaudiaB5: Sorry I are an actor
Jms at B5: I've been TOLD they're going to be out over the summer,
but have
no objective way...
Jms at B5: of verifying that.
Question: JMS, do you plan on exploring Ivanova's relationship with
her
mother (i.e. latent
Question: telepathy) in future episodes?
Jms at B5: Not as much this year as last; more of an important
reference,
however.
ClaudiaB5: Been there done that worn the T-shirt.
Question: Ms. Christian - Do you feel that Cmdr. Ivanova could be
considered
a role model for
Question: females? Especially those interested in the military?
Jms at B5: Claudia, leave your -tshirt alone.
Jms at B5: (Can't WAIT for this answer.)
ClaudiaB5: Absolutely, I feel honored that a new generation of young
girls no
longer feel the need...
ClaudiaB5: to be secretaries. Ivanova is God.
Question: What can you tell us about next weeks show "And Now For A
Word"?
Jms at B5: It's a break in our usual format, something we haven't
done
before, and which hasn't been.
Jms at B5: done in SF tv before, to my knoweldge. But to tell it up
front
would ruin the surprise...
Jms at B5: for those who don't want it spoiled.
Question: I have watched Claudia for a long time. When she was in
the Hidden
I have that on video
Question: tape. I think she is a wonderful actress. How did she
get started
in Show business?
ClaudiaB5: It's a great episode
Jms at B5: Working in the original CB DeMille silent movies.
ClaudiaB5: With absolutely no help and a lot of gumption.
Jms at B5: Gumption is what you find on your shoes, btw.
ClaudiaB5: With Joe as my personal assisstant
Jms at B5: Call me Igor.
Question: JMS: You said (on the net) that tomorrow night's episode
would have
something special for
Question: videotapers. My fiance broke the VCR. Any chance you could
tell us
_when_ in the episode we
Question: should squint real hard?
ClaudiaB5: Actually he was my makeup artist but he's a little shy.
Jms at B5: Do you know how much makeup covering that scar requires?
To the
question:...
Jms at B5: look for the end of the long reference to the Psi Corps.
As they
smile. You'll see it.
Question: With the warrior caste dominant in the Council, does this
mean the
Earth -Minbari was is
Question: in danger of starting up again?
Jms at B5: Who can say?
Question: One thing that I enjoy about the B5 is the complex plot
and
character development - but
Question: this also makes it more difficult to interest friends in
the show
(so much back history) - Any
Question: way to help bring new commers up to speed?
ClaudiaB5: You should point out that ep will be on next week, not
this week.
Jms at B5: Actually, the episode next week, And Now For a Word, is
DESIGNED
in part...
Jms at B5: to help new viewers come to the show; interestingly
enough,
though, I've received...
Jms at B5: many letters from overseas, where they show the series out
of
order totally, and the..
Jms at B5: folks seem to have no problem getting into it. All the
episodes
are self-contained.
Question: How many Video Toasters do you have rendering the effects
for the
show?
Jms at B5: 15,423.
Jms at B5: It's a BIG room.
ClaudiaB5: Send me $9.99 for a complete unauthorized compilation of
the
series.
Jms at B5: Actually, I think it's 10. But 15,423 sounded better.
Jms at B5: Or send it to her next of kin.
ClaudiaB5: Actually there are 35 toasters
Question: When will we find out more about Kosh?
Jms at B5: This season. By season's end, you'll know a LOT.
Question: It seems that the sets have been getting larger and more
elaborate.
Who is mostly
Question: responsible for the look of the show and how has it
changed since
the pilot?
Jms at B5: You may even SEE Kosh. And Kosh may SEE Claudia. Eeek.
ClaudiaB5: Promises, promises, Joey baby...
Jms at B5: John Iacovelli, our art director, John Copeland, who works
with
him, John Flinn, our DP...
Jms at B5: all the little Johns...and the construction crew. We have
18
standing sets and the...
Jms at B5: capacity for 70 swing sets.
Question: Do you or will you ever entertain scripts from freelance
writers?
Jms at B5: I don't entertain anyone.
ClaudiaB5: I only entertain writers.
Jms at B5: Then why are you in the other office?
Question: Are there any planes for a motion picture?
Jms at B5: Nope. Don't want no franchise. Don't want no movie.
Just do TV.
ClaudiaB5: But I'm available.
Jms at B5: Tell your story and get off the stage. 5 years with
Claudia is
enough for anyone.
Jms at B5: Lord knows.
Question: For JMS: What is your favorite episode of Babylon 5
Jms at B5: So far, of what's aired, "The Coming of Shadows," but
overall so
far, the episode later...
Jms at B5: this season, "The Long, Twilight Struggle" tied with
"Comes the
Inquisitor."
Question: For Claudia: How does B5 compare to your other works?
ClaudiaB5: I didn't have to put up with Joe Straczynski on the other
shows.
Jms at B5: Also, here we allow her to speak.
Jms at B5: Barely.
ClaudiaB5: Thank God for talkies.
Question: Any words on a Babylon 5 CD-ROM?
Jms at B5: Late fall, I hear. I also hear voices in the night
telling me I'm
Joan of Arc.
Jms at B5: One of them is right.
Question: Two questions: How can I write to the producers of the
show, and
is there an official fan
Question: club. I'm not the type that normally goes for this sort
of thing,
but this show is relly worth
Question: it!
Jms at B5: You can write to me via AOL, and we hope to have an
official fan
club up soonish.
ClaudiaB5: How come everybody always claims not to be the type?
Question: Ivanova's a strong female character, yet men seem to love
her
rather than feel
Question: threatened...why do you think this is?
ClaudiaB5: Because I'm so irresistable and humble.
Question: Has your budget for special effects increased over time?
Jms at B5: (thud)
Jms at B5: Very slighty. We generally do fine with what we have.
Question: Have any of the plots used in scripts for "the other Space
Station
series" caused you to
Question: alter the story arc?
Jms at B5: I think I dropped one or two notions because they'd walked
into
that arena on other...
Jms at B5: shows, like DS9, but they never got very far, and our way
of
handling them would be...
Jms at B5: very different in any event. It's inevitable. But less
so the
deeper we get into the..
Jms at B5: story.
Question: Claudia: How does it feel knowing that JMS knows what's
going to
know what will happen to
Question: your character down the line, and he won't tell? Do you
try to get
a hint out of him?
ClaudiaB5: I've invested a lot of money trying to pry the info from
him and
then...
ClaudiaB5: I tried sex. Nothing worked.
Jms at B5: I have SEVERAL hints for Claudia. But she keeps insisting
on
continuing to act.
Jms at B5: Hey, what's this "nothing worked" bit...?
ClaudiaB5: Like what?
Jms at B5: What?
ClaudiaB5: Act like what?
Jms at B5: A BETTER PERSON, ALL RIGHT?
ClaudiaB5: I love you Joe.
Jms at B5: (Lord, people, you have no idea...she's a cutie, but we're
both
going to hell for this.(
Jms at B5: Has ANYONE out there got a question to save us from
ourselves?
Question: Can you tell us about Garibaldi (can't remember the
actor's name)
and his resume when he
Question: auditioned? I hear it is a funny story.
Jms at B5: His resume had some...creative writing. He listed among
his bogus
credits...
Jms at B5: "Member, Dance Theater of Harlem." I said "Okay, dance."
Total
fiction.
Question: Will any computer game companies be picking up the rights
to B5 for
a new game? If you
Question: know of any>?
Jms at B5: Not yet.
Question: It seems like Ambassador Delen has taken a minor role
lately. Will
that change in the
Question: future?
Jms at B5: Someone might be picking up Claudia.
Jms at B5: Definitely. We have major plans for Delenn.
Question: This may be a silly question, but it is one that I have
asked when
watching almost every
Question: episode: Do Membari wear some type of headdress, or are
those
things on their heads actually
Question: part of their heads?
Jms at B5: It's bone that grows around from the back, like antlers.
Question: What are the titles of the remaining episodes in the
season?
ClaudiaB5: I certainly hope so.
Jms at B5: There All the Honor Lies, AndNow for a Word, Knives, In
the Shadow
of Z'ha'dum...
Jms at B5: Confessions and Lamentations, The Long Twilght STruggle,
Divided
Loyalties...
Jms at B5: Comes the Inquisitor and The Fall of Night.
Question: JMS- How much do the other people working on the show know
about
the story arc?
Jms at B5: As little as possible. I could tell them, but then I'd
have to
kill them.
ClaudiaB5: Diddly squat.
Jms at B5: Which is a new exercising regimen.
Question: for jms, when will we find out how someone managed to
poison Kosh
thru his suit??
Jms at B5: In the pilot, we saw him extend a part of himself. So
that's
obviusly how. Question...
Jms at B5: remains, WHY expose himself like this if he's worried
about being
seen? This will be...
Jms at B5: implied in this sesaon.
Question: In ST:NG, DS9, and recently in ST:V, the reoccuring plot
of a
malfuntioning holodeck seems
Question: to dominate the episodes. Do you predict any reoccuring
plots that
might happen in B5?
Jms at B5: no
ClaudiaB5: Yes, the ongoing war between Claudia and Joe.
Jms at B5: The B5 tech works right out of the box.
Jms at B5: War of the Roses? War of 1812?
ClaudiaB5: The Battle between the north and south.
Question: After the five year "arc" is done will the show be
cancelled?
Jms at B5: North and the Mouth?
Jms at B5: Unless there's a planned side-story, yes, that's the
intent.
ClaudiaB5: I'll be continuing, dinner theatre.
Question: Are we going to be seeing more of or hearing from the
telepath
Gray?
Jms at B5: Not this season.
Question: Will we be seeing a connection between Susan and the
Raiders?
ClaudiaB5: Soupy Sales is playing Sheridan in Spring Valley.
ms at B5: Nope. Will you take Foreign Breeds of Frogs for fifty
dollars:
Question: Will B4 come back or will it stay vanished?
Jms at B5: Yes.
Question: JMS, B5's storyline is very complex...plots within plots
within
plots. How do you and the
Question: writers keep it flowing as well as you do?
ClaudiaB5: I'll be back and I'll take obscure writers for a hundred.
Jms at B5: You win.
Jms at B5: Again, by virtue that I outlined all this 7 years ago.
It's all
in 200 pages of notes.
Jms at B5: Along with Ivanova's impending death scene (if this
conference
keeps going the way it is)
Question: JMS, How much do you feel that the Internet has helped to
bolster
the show's ratings?
ClaudiaB5: Does that mean I don't get the raise?
Jms at B5: Actually, I don't think it has, in that the numbers aren't
there,
but it helps to give me.
Jms at B5: a sense of the room, and I think it's important, in
producing a
show, to remain both...
Jms at B5: open and accountable to the fans of the SF genre, who are
generally the most...
Jms at B5: exploited genre fans around. Good or bad, I'm here for
the
duration.
ClaudiaB5: THud.
Jms at B5: What raise?
Question: Exactly how long does it take to film an episode, as well
as apply
the make and costumes
Question: to the aliens?
Jms at B5: 7 days to film 52 days to finish everything.
Jms at B5: 42 days for Claudia to learn her lines.
Question: JMS, the show is very allegorical and an epic of biblical
proportions. Are the Vorlons an
Question: allusion to angels and the Shadows an allusion to demons?
ClaudiaB5: I just like seeing Joe face to face.
Jms at B5: Not really, no...it goes a lot deeper than that. The show
operates on many levels; you...
ClaudiaB5: Ivanova is God.
Jms at B5: can't stop at that level.
Jms at B5: BTW, before we stop in a bit, I just want to make
ABSOLUTELY
CLEAR...
Jms at B5: that I have nothing but respect and awe and affection for
Claudia,
and we get on here...
Jms at B5: to play, and she's fun, and she plays back.
Jms at B5: Also she's on my lap.
OnlineHost: All good things must come to an end. Our time is up for
this
event.
ClaudiaB5: Move your hand Joe.
Jms at B5: That's not my hand.
CSEmcee5: Thank you both for joining us tonight! I hope you had as
good a
time as we all did.
Jms at B5: It was great.
ClaudiaB5: In that case does that come in adult size?
Jms at B5: Not in years.
ClaudiaB5: Thanks, I've had a blast..got to run before Joe kills me.
CSEmcee5: Good night everyone. Thanks for joining us tonight.
Jms at B5: And thanks for all th support.
Jms at B5: The wedding dress ain't white, sweetie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
While everyone else is bickering over lethal-trans-species-organic-
nano-machines, has anyone noticed that over the last few episodes
Dr. Franklin seems to have developed an addiction to 'stims'. I'm not
sure if the stims themselves are addictive or if he is using them to
aid an addiction to his work, his sacrifice to help others. Anyway,
Richard Biggs gave another fine performance.
sure seems to be using those stims a *lot...*"
wants to save everybody, so whenever there's a crisis, he hits the
stims to stay awake and active. (Anybody remember the first reference
to him doing this?) He mentioned going for them in "Z'ha'dum," when
the refugees were streaming through, and we actually saw him *injecting*
them in C&L. The fact that he was injecting them indicates that he's
getting seriously into them; otherwise he could use a slap patch or
some pills or something...
on the poor guy any time soon.
with her; if she wants to die a hero, that's fine, but taking Lennier
down with her? Yeesh! (Not to mention the fact that she made the poor
guy stay awake for two days.) I'm starting to think Delenn doesn't
deserve him...
is an agent of the Shadows; Sheridan is obsessive to the point of
disregarding justice; Delenn is dangerously unstable; G'kar is
descending into extreme depression and melancholy; ... and Franklin
is probably *dependant* on those stims by now.
shouldn't be hitting on the Big Galoot, but my confidence in Delenn's
common sense is rapidly deteriorating.)
If you go way, way back in JMS's public statements--all the way back
to the "Grid Epsilon log" (available for consultation on the Lurker's
Guide)--you will find a reference to a storyline in which Laurel has
a run-in with "certain chemicals." Well, Laurel isn't with us any
more, and those who have made it through Season One know what happened
to the Laurel-as-betrayer thread. Could it be we're going to see
what happened to the Laurel-and-chemicals thread? Certainly the
growing friendship between Garibaldi (the recovering alcoholic) and
Franklin suddenly takes on new significance. (And speaking of
dependencies, I can't believe how much time I spent tracking down that
dimly remembered reference to chemicals . . . .)
Re: parallel visuals between MotFL and CoS...yes, precisely. In some
ways, they were set up as mirror-image parallels of one another, to show
how the wheel turns, to quote G'Kar. The opening council meeting, the
attacks, the determination to kill the other, alternately Garibaldi or
Sheridan having to stop them by calling on the question of consequences if
followed up on...it shows CoS as sort of the "dark mirror" of the first
episode. Everything we saw when we first thought we knew what the series
was has now totally reversed and been turned on its head.
to: what is important to you? what are you willing to sacrifice? how far
are you willing to go to get what you want? For me, a large measure of
defining WHO we are is by WHAT we are willing to do, and what we want, and
the means by which we pursue those goals. The other theme of course is
sacrifice, which recurs throughout the show in one form or another.
why that they miss what it's *about* on a more cellular level. And that's
the question of who we are. Identity. The importance of *one single
person* and the ability of that person to act as a fulcrum, intentionally
or otherwise, upon which vast events can turn. Choices. What you value
most. Those, to me, are the issues most worth exploring. We're told
every day, beaten down with the notion that we're powerless, that we
can't change things, you can't fight city hall...and of course it's not
true. You can fight. And sometimes, you can even win.
If the question is "Which is the greater good, self sacrifice or
honesty within the B5 universe," I'd have to for a third option. Both
of those are behaviors in service to a given cause. And it's the
selection of the greater *cause* that is most important; is it a
constructive cause, or a destructive one? Are you helping humanity step
forward, or step back? This isn't situational ethics, because the ethics
going in have to be the same: building the future, helping those who
cannot help themselves, spreading hope, fighting repression and pushing
for freedom and responsibility as linked concepts.
own goals. The Minbari don't generally lie; but the often tell only part
of the truth. If G'Kar has gotten away with something in the pilot, and
can't be brought to standard justice, some other way of meting out
justice will be found, even if that means fibbing to him about a
transmitter he's swallowed...i.e., lying.
everybody. Even if it's only a case of, "Listen, I tried to make it to
the party, but traffic was just a mess, I got up late, the dog ate my
homework."
work of the author does not always represent what the author believes on
a 1-1 basis. (If it did, there'd be NO religion in B5.) Personally, I
think I put loyalty and honesty at the top of my pantheon. I've worked
very hard to maintain a certain reputation, and it means a lot to me.
And anyone here who knows me knows that if you try and go after someone
I consider a friend, you will have to go through me first.
own personal Maslow's Pyramid of Self-Actualization is that it only
functions as a subset of something else. Self-sacrifice...to do *what*?
You are willing to die for a cause. Is that cause right? Are you too
easily and readily prepared to sacrifice? The other, less terminal form
of self-sacrifice is giving to other people, working to make life better,
but I don't tend to believe that's sacrifice as much as simple personal
responsibility. We should do it as freely and as easily as we breathe.
frequently find myself surprised at the depth of analysis that goes on
here, and the toughtfulness behind it. Quite a few have Gotten It. Some
are still backing up far enough to see the whole picture. And maybe at
times I'm not being sufficiently craftworthy in my work to make those
elements sufficiently clear. But the deeper we go, the more there is to
get, and the more folks *do* seem to be nailing it.
now about a hundred years. It's quite a bit longer for the other races;
G'Kar is about 70 or more, but is considered mid-range, equal to a human
in early 40s, among Narns. Delenn is in about the same position, equal to
30s-40s in her terms, but in years a bit older. They are a pretty long
lived people. Centauri aren't quite as long-lived, but they do a bit
better than the Narns. The Vorlons......are.
to make the models work. I think a lot of the difficulty with TV EFX is
just not thinking things through, and doing everything last-minute. We
don't generally have that problem.
sequences in a slightly different way. Because I know the story for each
year ahead of time, we could've ganged all the EFX shots together. I.e.,
you know you're going to have battle scenes in episodes 3 and 7 between
the same two races, same kinds of ships. So you double up your cameras
for different angles, and basically shoot both at once, then isolate the
different pieces for either of the two episodes. We also would've had a
second unit shooting 2 days per week as a visual EFX unit.
along when it did, but we would've found some way to do it regardless.
The history of this series is that of determination despite whatever
obstacles are thrown at us. Once we set our minds to the course, nothing
stops us.
*****
"It was an early earth president, Abraham Lincoln, who best described
our situation. 'The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the
stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must
rise to the occasion. We cannot escape history. We will be remembered
in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light
us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly
save, or meanly lose, our last best hope of Earth.'"
Edited transcript of the formal conference
held on Sunday, May 21, 1995 with:
Alexander from the pilot film, "The Gathering," as well as
reprising her role in the upcoming "Divided Loyalties".
Star Trek fans will know her from her appearances as Kiros
on the "Starship Mine" episode of TNG as well as from her
status as Nana Visitor's stand-in on DS9.
| begun. Welcome, Pat! <applause>
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Folks who have a question, type ?
SysOp Lee | Welcome!
Patricia Tallman | Thank you! Hello, everyone!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Heike> would you like to ask the first
| question, to get things rolling?
Heike | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Heike> you have the floor. Ask your
| question. :)
Heike | Hi Patricia, how can I get your autograph
| <G> GA
Patricia Tallman | Send your request to: Broads on the
| Boards,
| 12828 Victory Bl, # 334, N. Hollywood, CA
| 91606. Thanks for asking! GA!
SysOp Lee | ?
Jean Grey | Hi
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Go ahead, Lee.
SysOp Lee | Pat, how did it come about that you are
| reapparing on Babylon 5 again? GA
Patricia Tallman | It happened like this...
| Joe Straczinski called me at home and
| asked if I would be a guest star on an
| upcoming episode called "Divided Loyalties
| as my character "Lyta Alexander". GA
SysOp Dupa | ??
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Go ahead, Dupa.
SysOp Dupa | Pat, is that aforementioned address also
| good for autographed photos? GA
Heike | ?
Patricia Tallman | Absolutely, and thanks. GA
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Heike.
Heike | Are you going to stay, I hope? I don't
| like Talia too much <BG> GA
Patricia Tallman | I hope so too. It's up to the fans'
| reaction...and Warner Bros. whims!! If you
| want me to stay, write to WB. GA
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Larry.
Larry Rosenblum | Patricia, thanks for coming. Did you keep
| up with B5 after you appeared on the
| pilot, or has Joe filled you in
| on what has happened since? GA
Patricia Tallman | I did not watch for two years, but I've
| been catching up thru Joe. GA
Heike | ?
SysOp Dupa | ??
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Go ahead, Heike.
Heike | Was the cast as funny and crazy as the
| mags say? GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | ?
Patricia Tallman | Yes. and more so. ...
| Claudia is outrageous, and Bruce is a
| sweetheart. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Dupa
SysOp Lee | ?
SysOp Dupa | Pat, what other work have you done in TV,
| Films, Stage, etc? GA
Patricia Tallman | I'll start with the films. ...
| In 1980, I starred in my first George
| Romero film called Knightriders, with Ed
| Harris I also starred in Night of the
| Living Dead (remake) in 1990 and I've been
| on all the Star Trek shows both as an
| actress and as a stuntwoman. I was in
| Star trek: Generations as a double
| for Beverly, both the Klingon Sisters, and
| I was a Star Fleet officer on the bridge
| when the Enterprise crashed (but it wasn't
| my fault!!). I was the stunt coordinator
| on the set for one day during that
| sequence. GA
SysOp Dupa | <making note to look up those films>
| Thanks, Pat! GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Pat, how did you get your role in the
| Babylon 5 pilot? Audition? GA
Patricia Tallman | Joe S. saw me in Night of the Living dead
| and wrote the part of "Lyta" for me. I
| walked into the audition, and this tall
| man rushes out and says "Hi, I'm Joe. I
| wrote this part for you. Good Luck!" and
| he left me there, stunned!! GA
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | <grin> sounds like a fun adventure.
| Thanks, Pat. GA
| go ahead, Lee.
Heike | ?
SysOp Lee | Pat, how did the atmosphere on the set
| compare between the pilot and the series
| two years down the road? GA
Patricia Tallman | On the pilot, we were all new together
| there was a little more stress because we
| were creating as we went but the
| camaraderie was genuine because no one was
| a star. Now, the pace is fast and furious,
| but also, comfortable and confident. I
| felt very much at home, and we all feel
| "the show" is a star. GA
Timothy C Schell | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Larry
Larry Rosenblum | I believe I read that you declined the
| offer to continue on the show when it
| began as a regular series? True? Why? GA
Patricia Tallman | Technically, that's true, but I was
| railroaded into not accepting the
| contract. No one on the show had anything
| to do with it, and I can't be more
| specific...but Joe and I hope the
| situation will be different now. Sorry to
| be mysterious, but that's show biz. It
| broke my heart not to be a part of the
| series, and it's interesting how life
| turns around. I'm thrilled to be back. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Heike.
Heike | Are you on line once in a while?
| There was a guy here yesterday claiming to
| be Jerry Doyle...GA
Patricia Tallman | This is my first time. My friend Rosie
| is introducing me to the excitement of
| cyberspace. "I'll be back"!! GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | We're glad you're here, Pat! Go ahead,
| Timothy.
Timothy C Schell | Who were some of the actors you worked
| with extensively in filming the upcoming
| episode? GA
Patricia Tallman | The entire cast...
| My very first day of shooting I had a ton
| of exposition to the entire cast about
| where Lyta Alexander has been (as if
| anyone cares). It was a gruelling day, and
| they were all great to me. GA
SysOp Dupa | ??
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Dupa.
SysOp Lee | ?
SysOp Dupa | Pat, don't worry. There's been lots of
| folks harrassing JMS about where is Lyta
| (etc.) so you can be sure that lots of us
| care where Lyta has been. GA
Kent E. Lucas | ?
Timothy C Schell | ?
Patricia Tallman | Really? That's so great to hear, thanks!
| GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Larry.
Larry Rosenblum | We're all dying to know more about Kosh...
| But what I want to ask is how you liked
| working with Michael O'Hare in the pilot.
| Many of us fans miss him... GA
Patricia Tallman | Lyta knows more about Kosh than anyone in
| the universe, except maybe Ambassador
| Delenn. I loved working with Michael, we
| had a great relationship, and I really
| missed him when I was sucked out an
| airlock for the series!! GA
SysOp Dupa | <except JMS of course>
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Lee
SysOp Lee | Pat, since you've now worked on B5 during
| its series run, how would you compare
| working on B5 vs working on the Trek
| shows? GA
Patricia Tallman | From what I could tell, it was a lot more
| fun on B5 because we didn't have the
| producers from the network hanging over
| our heads. It's a much smaller production
| than the huge machines that are the
| Paramount shows, but I loved the cast on
| TNG and DS9. They're good friends and I
| missed them while I was pregnant and
| couldn't do stunt work.GA
Heike | ?
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Kent.
Kent E. Lucas | Patrica, I found your presence on the
| pilot very stunning. Your red hair
| reminded me of the Darkover novels.
| Being in PSICorp, were you directed to be
| stand-offish, seperated from the rest of
| the humans? GA
Mike Valerio | ?
Patricia Tallman | Thank you, Kent. That's very sweet.
| Re: PSICORPS...
| Lyta was taken from her family when she
| was 5 yrs old, raised by the PSIcorps and
| in their very rigorous disciplined
| traditions because of her psychic
| abilities, she does not relate to people
| the way most of us do. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Go ahead, Timothy.
Timothy C Schell | Based on the series to date and on
| whatever you can tell us about future
| developments, what do you find most
| appealing about the Babylon 5 universe
| and some of the themes that Joe is
| developing? GA
Patricia Tallman | I very much am drawn to the "good vs.
| evil" themes. You're starting to see
| more of that now on the B5 episodes to
| come. Also JMS has such fresh and exciting
| perspectives on on the series, and that he
| has a definite goal, rather than open
| ended episodic structure. GA
Timothy C Schell | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Heike
Heike | Is it a lot harder to work with computer
| images as compared to all props? How much
| was c.i.? GA
SysOp Lee | ?
Patricia Tallman | No, I've always had a good imagination. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Larry
Larry Rosenblum | I can't help following up...Does Lyta know
| more about Kosh than Kosh's
| mother? Hmmm, does Kosh have a mother?
| GA
Patricia Tallman | Can't answer that...
| I probably don't match his mother, if he
| has one.(???) GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Mike
Mike Valerio | Patricia, it's very exciting to hear that
| you're a new mom! Please tell us all about
| your baby! Does it look like Lyta? GA
Patricia Tallman | Thank you for asking Mike...
| My son is 6 months old, his name is
| Julian and he looks like his Daddy...we
| don't know yet about his psychic
| abilities. !! GA
Mike Valerio | Thank you, Pat! I'm a HUGE fan!!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Timothy.
Timothy C Schell | Heike pretty much asked my intended
| question about CGI, so I'll try something
| else. Based on what you know and if you
| were living in 2259, is Babylon 5 just a
| nice place to visit or would you like to
| live there? <g> GA
Patricia Tallman | I like the future, I like where B5 is
| going, and I'd rather be there than in LA,
| but the food in the comissary is lousy!!
| GA
Mike Valerio | ?
SysOp Dupa | <or San Diego>
Timothy C Schell | Right on!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Lee.
SysOp Lee | Pat, don't know if you've been told, but
| your new episode won't air in the U.S.
| until October, but in the U.K. in about a
| month. Is there anything you can tease us
| with about the circumstances of Lyta's
| return? GA
Patricia Tallman | I'm shocked. I had an air date of June
| 7th. How do you know? Let's just say Lyta
| changes the future on B5. GA
Heike | ?
SysOp Lee | Joe has passed along the schedule news
| from PTEN.
Patricia Tallman | Thanks for the dope, Lee. GA
SysOp Lee | Some executive who thinks fans won't mind
| waiting several more months.
| GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Thanks, Lee. go ahead, Mike.
Mike Valerio | Patricia, since you worked on ST/TNG: Can
| you give us any information about the well-
| publicized cat-fights between Marina
| Sirtis and Gates McFadden. We want ALL the
| dirt, girlfriend! GA
Patricia Tallman | You are an animal! Well...
| this is actually the first I've heard of
| that! They always got along great when I
| was there! GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Heike.
straczynski | Okay, who let an actress in here?
Heike | Can you share any B5 bloopers with us? GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | hello, JMS! :)
Patricia Tallman | You see? They treat us like scum!! :)GA
| Bloopers for Heike:...
Mike Valerio | Hey, Joe! Give the red-head a regular gig!
SysOp Dupa | <Ok, who let the Producer in here?>
Patricia Tallman | I guess there were bloopers on the
| pilot... but it was so long ago, I don't
| remember. Sorry. GA
straczynski | Lemme just make a comment (assuming I'm
| not bumped)....
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | You have the floor. :)
straczynski | Aside from being the most breathtakingly,
| drop-dead gorgeous woman it's ever been my
| honor to work with....
| with eyes that could melt an igloo at 500
| paces....
| Pat is one of the most skilled actors I've
| encountered of late, and is someone who I
| invariably BUY as a telepath; you get the
| real sense that something's going on when
| she scans someone, which is VERY hard to
| pull off realistically. That more folks
| out here haven't yet discovered her is
| unfathomable, but in one sense serves us
| in that she's here with us, and that is
| terrific. It's also my intent and my
| desire to use Pat next season in other
| episodes, because Lyta has a place in the
| B5 universe, and I would like to see that
| place, which I had always intended from
| the pilot, filled by Pat. She's a hoot to
| work with. (That okay by you, Pat?) ga
Patricia Tallman | Yes!! Thanks, JMS, I'm stunned. I'll pay
| you later!! GA
SysOp Dupa | Pat - You wanna ask JMS any questions?
Patricia Tallman | I already have. Thank you. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Anyone have any more questions?
straczynski | I think I scared 'em.
Heike | ?
Viper | haha
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | [smile]
straczynski | See, Pat they like, you can't NOT like
| Pat. Me, I scare anybody.
Patricia Tallman | You have that effect! :) GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Heike.
Heike | To Joe, do the fanclubs answer autographs
| like in ST, or do your actors? GA
straczynski | We don't have the facility to handle
| autographs or pictures at this time. ga
Mike Valerio | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Mike
straczynski | Hey, Pat, why don't you tell them what you
| had in mind to pull on Andreas/G'Kar?
SysOp Lee | ?
Patricia Tallman | TThanks, Joe...
| While I was heavily pregnant with my
| son, I wanted to show up on the set
| when Andreas was working, surprise him at
| the door, and say, "G'Kar, we gotta
| talk..." GA
Mike Valerio | Joe, what did Pat bring to the role of
| Lyta that maybe wasn't on the printed
| page? Did she (as an actress) surprise you
| (as the writer and creator of the
| character) in any way? GA
straczynski | First was the sense of believability, and
| vulnerability, yet paired with
| considerable strength, physically and
| emotionally. Remember that Pat's a
| stuntperson, and thus that adds a lot of
| power to her performance and presence.
| So what I wanted from Lyta was that sense
| of power beneath the surface, combined
| with a certain vulnerability ON the
| surface, which came through wonderfully.
| Y'have to understand, I saw her on "Dead"
| and just fell off my seat thinking,
| "Jesus, she's GOOD." And I vowed a blood
| oath to somehow get her on the show, if it
| went. (Funny thing...I was at a horror
| awards show, before B5 got going, and she
| was there, and I kinda wanted to hand her
| my card and say, "Hi, I'm a producer,
| wanna work for me?" but I was afraid she'd
| take it as a pickup line or something
| similar.) ga
Mike Valerio | Hey, Joe, that's great! You're obviously
| as hooked on Pat as we are! Am I smelling
| SPIN-OFF here? GA
straczynski | I'm just too busy spinning just now. ga
Patricia Tallman | Am I gonna have to pay ALL of you guys? ga
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Lee.
SysOp Lee | Back to Pat, how does it feel to have your
| name mispelled on the credits of one
| of the biggest movies of all time?
| (I.e Jurassic Park as "Patrick Tallman".)
| GA
Patricia Tallman | She's talking about Jurassic Park, folks.
| It was the gender change that hurt the
| most. "Patrick Tallman" doesn't sit too
| well with my boyfriend. Of course, his
| name is Andrea!! GA
SysOp Lee | BTW, I'm a he. Some names do that. :) GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Any more questions? :)
Larry Rosenblum | ?
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Larry
Patricia Tallman | That's why I try to have "Patricia" in all
| my credits. :) GA
Larry Rosenblum | Pat, is Lyta still a firm believer in Psi
| Corps? We've seen that Talia Winters is
| starting to have her doubts. GA
Mike Valerio | ?
Patricia Tallman | That's a pivotal point in the plot of the
| episode. I can't be too specific, but
| that's a very good question, and you'll
| have to watch! Sorry! GA
Heike | ?
Larry Rosenblum | That's B5. Good questions, no answers....
| GA
Patricia Tallman | Not yet, Larry. GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Mike.
Mike Valerio | OK, Pat, here's the one you've been
| dreading...OJ...Guilty or Innocent? GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | <groan>
Patricia Tallman | Oh, please, groan...is there any
| question?? GA
SysOp Dupa | <Whapping Mike>
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | I think we'll leave that unanswered, Mike!
| <g> Go ahead, Heike.
Heike | Now that they introduced merchandise on
| the show (love the teddy bear!!!), maybe
| we get to buy a Lyta doll? Hint, hint...GA
Mike Valerio | Hey, it's a sci-fi related question! OJ
| was in CAPRICORN ONE!
Patricia Tallman | Mike, by the way, the trial will probably
| go till 2250!!
straczynski | Yeah, you can buy a Lyta doll, but it
| disappears after 6 weeks and goes away
| under mysterious circumstances.
Patricia Tallman | Re, the doll...
SysOp Dupa | <A Lyta action figure being chased by a
| G'Kar action figure?>
Patricia Tallman | it'll show up again in two years! GA
Patricia Tallman | And a baby that pops out :)GA
straczynski | Pull the string and it goes "THAT ONE!
| THAT ONE"! (Watch the ep, you'll
| understand.)
SysOp Dupa | <In October!>
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | <laughs> Any more questions, folks? :)
| David, you've been here since the
| beginning. Any questions or comments?
Kent E. Lucas | ?
Patricia Tallman | Yeah, I gotta kid to feed!!
David Monroe | None
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead, Kent.
straczynski | (I got a conference on delphi at 7, for
| anyone who cares.)
Mike Valerio | Dave, you chatterbox!
Heike | ?
Patricia Tallman | Thanks for your interest, Dave!! :)GA
Kent E. Lucas | Wil your role be an role, oracle role,
| victim role? Action role?
kosh | yes
Patricia Tallman | All of the above, Kent! GA
Basil the cat | Meow!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | go ahead Heike.
Heike | As parting words, let's just say we got a
| double whammy tonight (thank you all so
| much for coming, Pat and Joe) and I feel
| rather faint in the head...like meeting
| your biggest heroes...<G> GA
Patricia Tallman | That's very sweet. I enjoyed meeting you
| too...
| for anyone's interest...
| I will be appearing
| at the Magnum Opus Con
| July 13-16
| in Pine Mountain, GA. For information,
| fax: 706-549-8819...
| or write to Roland Castle at PO Box 6585,
| Athens, GA 30604 GA
straczynski | I often feel faint in the head upon
| meeting me, but often I won't talk to me
| and just snub me.
| She'll be there with Bruce B., so you
| DEFINITELY want to go.
Mike Valerio | Hey, thanks, Pat, for hanging with all of
| us! Oh, and Joe, we still want to see that
| new B5-spin-off, LYTA ALEXANDER, SPACE
| PSYCHIC!! GA
straczynski | Pat in person is a pleasure. Go. See.
| Enjoy.
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Thanks for the information, Pat. Would
| you join us here again for another
| conference sometime?
| This has been wonderful. GA
Patricia Tallman | Thank you everyone! I had a ball. Do you
| want to do this again after the episode
| airs? GA
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | That would be great, Pat. GA
SysOp Lee | I'm chairing a convention in Sept, 1996.
| I'll keep you in mind. :)
Patricia Tallman | Lee, please keep me in mind for the 1996
| convention. GA
SysOp Lee | We need Joe to do this more often here,
| too! :)
Larry Rosenblum | I second that, Lee!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | Many thanks to Pat (and to Joe) for being
| here tonight!!
Patricia Tallman | Bye now!! :)
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | <APPLAUSE>
SysOp Dupa | Hooray!
Patricia Tallman | Thank you, thank you!
Heike | <More applause>
Larry Rosenblum | Thanks much, Pat. Hope to see you lots
| more on B5.
straczynski | I think you will.
Patricia Tallman | Bye!
Eric R. Durrance | Hello
Larry Rosenblum | Does that mean season 3 is official?
straczynski | Nope. Not yet.
Heike | No word yet?
Larry Rosenblum | Sigh...
SysOp Dupa | JMS - Any hints?
Patricia Tallman | One can only hope!
SysOp Adrienne Chaf | We'll be hoping hard! :)
straczynski | Zooming off into the
| distance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
SysOp Dupa | JMS forgot to activate the jumpgate again!
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